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Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

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Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#31

Post by beagle3 »

sgdesign wrote: post #7

One thing I still don’t quite understand is how a system like this one can develop when the people developing it almost certainly are completely opposed to these ideas on a personal political level. I almost feel like it was an excess of idealism and belief in “the free market of ideas” -as well as the idea that Facebook should remain a neutral party at all cost- that led to overcompensating in the wrong direction, a…

It is hard for a person to understand something, when their salary depends on not understanding it. —-Upton Sinclair

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#32

Post by cheschire »

sgdesign wrote: post #7

One thing I still don’t quite understand is how a system like this one can develop when the people developing it almost certainly are completely opposed to these ideas on a personal political level. I almost feel like it was an excess of idealism and belief in “the free market of ideas” -as well as the idea that Facebook should remain a neutral party at all cost- that led to overcompensating in the wrong direction, a…

Seems like you understand the situation perfectly, based on your second line.

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#33

Post by russholmes »

im3w1l wrote: post #6
arkitaip wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The algorithm is designed to propagate misinformation like crazy because that's what drives engagement and improves Facebook's metrics.

Come on, you know it's not true that it's designed to propagate misinformation. The algorithm can't even tell whether it's misinformation or not.

What Facebook's system does by design is to propagate and amplify simplistic, emotionally potent narratives. These tend to be fictional i.e. misinformation because reality is nuanced and boring. Further, this has been used by bad actors to seed social discontent and affect democratic elections. Facebook know exactly what is happening on their system and by whom.

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#34

Post by islon »

sgdesign wrote: post #7

One thing I still don’t quite understand is how a system like this one can develop when the people developing it almost certainly are completely opposed to these ideas on a personal political level. I almost feel like it was an excess of idealism and belief in “the free market of ideas” -as well as the idea that Facebook should remain a neutral party at all cost- that led to overcompensating in the wrong direction, a…

It is difficult to get a man to keep his moral compass, when his salary depends upon his not keeping it

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#35

Post by pjc50 »

Dansvidania wrote: post #13

People spread misinformation on Facebook. Arguably, it's not Facebook's responsibility to fact-check anything. Facebook is not a publishing house (at least not the Facebook social media platform as such) and mandating that they fact check and curate their ads and content is tricky business. It requires a legal definition of truth, which is a matter complex enough to justify the existence of the whole judiciary system…

People spread viruses at bars. The bars themselves don't spread viruses. Yet they're shut in quite a lot of countries, to their severe financial detriment, because that's where the spread happens.

Yes, it's asymptotically hard to assign truth values to every single thing that crosses our feeds, but there are degrees to this stuff, and at least two conservative "news" organizations have made court depositions to the effect that nobody should mistake their entertainment for facts.

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-yor...

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#36

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #21
Yuioup wrote: post #10

Facebook should be taken offline a week before the election.

So... I shouldn't talk to family overseas during this time or find another way to do it? Or everyone not living in the US should not have facebook before an American election? It would seem to be more prudent to disallow political ads the week before. Or make it a crime to, say, spread wrong information about voting. And so on.

> I shouldn't talk to family overseas during this time or find another way to do it?

A speed bump on posts (not messages or comments) isn’t a bad idea.

One month before an election, there is a fifteen-minute cooldown on posts. One week before, a one-hour cooldown. One day before, three. This lets people keep talking. But it slows the reproduction rate and gives people a shot, even if a long shot, at fact checking.

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#37

Post by pjc50 »

cryptica wrote: post #5

Facebook needs to be nationalized and regulated as a public utility. It's outrageous that this hasn't already happened. How much more election meddling do they need to get away with before everyone understands that this is necessary? At this stage, all remaining Facebook investors are deeply immoral individuals. All the reasonable moral individuals have already cashed out. The government should just screw over the re…

The BBC, our nationalised TV producer, has now been explicitly politicised by the government. It's very hard to have a state-owned media enterprise that doesn't end up propping up the status quo.

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#38

Post by irjustin »

sgdesign wrote: post #7

One thing I still don’t quite understand is how a system like this one can develop when the people developing it almost certainly are completely opposed to these ideas on a personal political level. I almost feel like it was an excess of idealism and belief in “the free market of ideas” -as well as the idea that Facebook should remain a neutral party at all cost- that led to overcompensating in the wrong direction, a…

I think the top comment has it right.

The result is actually an emergent property of "increase attention/engagement to the max".

This is actually an algorithmic result that was just one of many possibilities.

So, I don't blame the developers 100%. Forest/trees problem.

What I do blame is Zuckerberg & the Board's decision to not 180' on the algorithm and lower engagement now that we know this is the result - money & power.

Re: Facebook Is a 'Super Spreader' of Election Misinformation

#40

Post by pjc50 »

cryptica wrote: post #27
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook needs to be nationalized and regulated as a public utility It is outrageous that the history and effects of arbitrary nationalisation is so uncommonly understood.

Railways and telecoms worked out just fine. Sure, in many countries, train tickets have been getting overly expensive under government control but high costs are not such a huge concern in the grand scheme of things. On the other hand, the break up of AT&T in the US had huge benefits for consumers in terms of lowering costs. If Facebook is nationalized, at least they will not manipulate people to serve corporate inte…

> Sure, in the worst case, under government ownership, social media might be used to manipulate elections to give preference to the incumbent party over the other, but that is infinitely better than manipulating elections based on the financial interests of a tiny minority

These are the same thing.

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