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Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

arstechnica.com

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Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#21

Post by DanielBMarkham »

I have a fan page for the hn-books site (shameless plug: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hn-books/176636875710129?ref=s... )

On it I talk about what books and tools we're reviewing and cool book and tool stuff for startups and hackers. Hn-books.com is a hobby site, and the fan page is a part of that hobby of collecting cool resources.

But really, at the heart, it's all links -- links to the site, links to hn, recent blog entries with links. I don't do events, and resource links are the most useful thing I can provide. So when FB banned me from my own fan page, I was kind of freaked out. Why do that?

The only answer I got was because I was spamming, but heck I was just doing what the page was supposed to be about. I guess the problem was that somebody joined the fan page, then complained about the links the page was providing. The links they asked to get.

Just like with Ars, I found very little help. I finally sent an email off into the blind with something like "I am not spamming. I am simply maintaining a page full of resources. People who want to be fans of the page expect to see these resources. That's the whole point!"

A few days later the ban was lifted. The whole episode happened with very almost zero useful information from Facebook.

So somebody out there is reading these emails. But my customer service experience was far from pleasant. I hope Ars gets it straightened out. When you're in a situation where you can be punished for little reason and without much recourse something is whacked somewhere. This situation desperately needs some transparency and structure.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#22

Post by powertower »

The worst is that as soon as Facebook detects the stink on the internet of this, they will rectify the situation for ArsTechnica, but everyone else will still be screwed.

When you are dealing with virtual monopolies that have zero customer support and negative processes (Facebook, Google, etc) getting locked out does not mean that you get go somewhere else, it literally mean getting locked out of an entire aspect of your life and/or business...

Think about it: all your friends are on facebook, you get banned, where are you going to go, which other social site are you going to use?

Facebook did not make facebook popular, the users did. Virtual monopolies need to recognize this, that they have a responsibility to the users.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#24

Post by IanDrake »

msy wrote: post #20

I feel like I'm repeating myself daily at the moment. If you're not paying for it, you shouldn't expect anything . If people paid for the services they used, they'd have recourse and the interests of the provider and the consumer would be aligned. As it stands, why would or should Facebook give a shit? Brands building their online presence via Facebook are mad as far as I'm concerned, Facebook owns that content, they…

>why would or should Facebook give a shit?

Because, as ars points out, the system is ripe for abuse. I could make an auto complaining bot that aims to take down every page with a copyright complaint. Eventually facebook would be a waste land with large groups of alienated folks bad mouthing facebook and seeking an alternative.

Ultimately, facebook needs to resolve this issue, even if they need to charge a fee.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#25

Post by yellowbkpk »

msy wrote: post #20

I feel like I'm repeating myself daily at the moment. If you're not paying for it, you shouldn't expect anything . If people paid for the services they used, they'd have recourse and the interests of the provider and the consumer would be aligned. As it stands, why would or should Facebook give a shit? Brands building their online presence via Facebook are mad as far as I'm concerned, Facebook owns that content, they…

I am paying for it with a very valuable commodity: my personal information. I have every right to complain about getting the crappy end of the stick when stuff like this happens in the same way you have the right to complain about a crummy contract with AT&T or your roofer.

Just because the currency in question is not (directly) the USD doesn't mean I'm not paying for it.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#26

Post by ignifero »

msy wrote: post #20

I feel like I'm repeating myself daily at the moment. If you're not paying for it, you shouldn't expect anything . If people paid for the services they used, they'd have recourse and the interests of the provider and the consumer would be aligned. As it stands, why would or should Facebook give a shit? Brands building their online presence via Facebook are mad as far as I'm concerned, Facebook owns that content, they…

But brands must be built on something, right? That's why google, facebook, twitter exist. It's a mutual relationship, facebook cannot go on screwing users, developers, advertisers, etc. for ever. At the moment, facebook's support gets an F- from me in all departments: user support, advertiser support, FB credits support, platform developers support.

Unfortunately, as long as facebook keeps growing without going public, their staff is kept busy with other things, like calculating their stock's valuations.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#27

Post by roc »

IanDrake wrote: post #24
msy wrote: post #20

I feel like I'm repeating myself daily at the moment. If you're not paying for it, you shouldn't expect anything . If people paid for the services they used, they'd have recourse and the interests of the provider and the consumer would be aligned. As it stands, why would or should Facebook give a shit? Brands building their online presence via Facebook are mad as far as I'm concerned, Facebook owns that content, they…

>why would or should Facebook give a shit? Because, as ars points out, the system is ripe for abuse. I could make an auto complaining bot that aims to take down every page with a copyright complaint. Eventually facebook would be a waste land with large groups of alienated folks bad mouthing facebook and seeking an alternative. Ultimately, facebook needs to resolve this issue, even if they need to charge a fee.

... which makes me wonder why Anonymous hasn't already done this. If only for the lulz.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#28

Post by flatline »

msy wrote: post #20

I feel like I'm repeating myself daily at the moment. If you're not paying for it, you shouldn't expect anything . If people paid for the services they used, they'd have recourse and the interests of the provider and the consumer would be aligned. As it stands, why would or should Facebook give a shit? Brands building their online presence via Facebook are mad as far as I'm concerned, Facebook owns that content, they…

Comcast Internet Basic Package: $49.99/mo

Comcast Internet Video Package (YouTube and Hulu): $79.99/mo.

Comcast Social Media add-on (Facebook, Xfinity Friends, NYTimes): $14.99/mo.

Point being, a large number of paid providers becomes inconvenient if not impossible for an individual to maintain. This creates a market for a gateway provider to aggregate payments and subscriptions, which role the big media companies have traditionally fulfilled. While it's true that dependence on Facebook leaves you with little recourse if things go wrong, individual payments for social media services seems untenable. There must be some better way of addressing the issue, as you cannot necessarily afford to ignore Facebook, Twitter, etc.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#29

Post by res0nat0r »

yellowbkpk wrote: post #25
msy wrote: post #20

I feel like I'm repeating myself daily at the moment. If you're not paying for it, you shouldn't expect anything . If people paid for the services they used, they'd have recourse and the interests of the provider and the consumer would be aligned. As it stands, why would or should Facebook give a shit? Brands building their online presence via Facebook are mad as far as I'm concerned, Facebook owns that content, they…

I am paying for it with a very valuable commodity: my personal information. I have every right to complain about getting the crappy end of the stick when stuff like this happens in the same way you have the right to complain about a crummy contract with AT&T or your roofer. Just because the currency in question is not (directly) the USD doesn't mean I'm not paying for it.

If your boss paid you via an excel spreadsheet of personal data every month I think you'd give a bit of pause on the real value of the dollar vs. personal information.

Sure you are giving them personal information that is valuable, but I don't think the datacenter power company is going to take that as a monthly payment from Facebook each month the bill is due.

You do have the right to complain, as everyone does, but since you aren't giving them actual $, they have the right to really not give a damn.

Re: Facebook shoots first, ignores questions later; account lock-out attack works

#30

Post by ekanes »

JoeCortopassi wrote: post #23

Easy way to fix this: Flag everything you see on Facebook. Once it starts crippling everyday users, they will take more care in taking stuff down just because a random person complains

Random abuse against innocent people isn't really the moral solution. Public complaints and negative press for Facebook is a better way.
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