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What Colour are your bits? (2004)

ansuz.sooke.bc.ca

11–20 of 36 posts

Re: What Colour are your bits? (2004)

#11
post #7

I think it would be better to think in terms of information theory, rather than the hypothetical color of bits. If I have a legally obtained copy of a copyrighted song (that is not permissively licensed), then I am restricted in my right to share copies. Certainly I can create a one-time pad and communicate that to someone, and I can XOR the bits of the song recording with that one-time pad, and the author would argu…

> I can XOR the bits of the song recording with that one-time pad, and the author would argue that I now have colorless bits.

No, the author would say the opposite. That’s the whole point - the process by which you get to the bits matters.

Re: What Colour are your bits? (2004)

#12
post #5

If curious see also 2014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8728532 2013 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6231992 2009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=506986

And I submitted it in 2017 but it didn't get any traction. Glad to see it again!

Re: What Colour are your bits? (2004)

#13
post #4

I've wondered how long it will be before input events are traceable to specific devices (e.g., you type 'A' on your keyboard, registered to you, and get a scancode . . . plus a few hundred bits timestamped and signed by the device before anyone can actually treat it as an 'A' keystroke). "Secure Unicode," anyone? I figure this kind of dystopian mechanism for input provenance is at least 100 years out. Please don't an…

This is reminiscent of Vinge's Rainbows End where 90% of every chip is DRM and 10% is actual functionality.

Re: What Colour are your bits? (2004)

#14
post #11
post #7

I think it would be better to think in terms of information theory, rather than the hypothetical color of bits. If I have a legally obtained copy of a copyrighted song (that is not permissively licensed), then I am restricted in my right to share copies. Certainly I can create a one-time pad and communicate that to someone, and I can XOR the bits of the song recording with that one-time pad, and the author would argu…

> I can XOR the bits of the song recording with that one-time pad, and the author would argue that I now have colorless bits. No, the author would say the opposite. That’s the whole point - the process by which you get to the bits matters.

OK, you are right, he is using "color" in a funny way to reflect the idea that the violation is somehow in those bits. But in my opinion, the violation is in the channel as a whole (the ciphertext, the one-time pad, and the instructions on how to decrypt, shared for the purpose of distributing copies), not because of "colored bits".

Re: What Colour are your bits? (2004)

#16
post #14
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can XOR the bits of the song recording with that one-time pad, and the author would argue that I now have colorless bits. No, the author would say the opposite. That’s the whole point - the process by which you get to the bits matters.

OK, you are right, he is using "color" in a funny way to reflect the idea that the violation is somehow in those bits. But in my opinion, the violation is in the channel as a whole (the ciphertext, the one-time pad, and the instructions on how to decrypt, shared for the purpose of distributing copies), not because of "colored bits".

Your opinion is an engineer or computer science opinion. I am not criticizing when I say that; I share it with you. But the opinion of most of the rest world is not with us, and this is a good essay explaining that opinion. It is important to understand it if you want to understand the world, make correct predictions about how most people will operate in these matters, or figure out how to best change people's minds. (I can definitely speak from experience that the direct approach is not very effective. Can't tell you what is, unfortunately...)

Re: What Colour are your bits? (2004)

#17
This essay is written to create the impression that it's imparting something profound, but it's really just identifying the existence of side channels.

We encode bits in all kinds of things. You can store some bits on a flash drive. Then you can write some words on the outside of the flash drive. They're both just bits.

Whether you own a flash drive with some bits on it which is in a safety deposit box at a bank may depend on the bits in the bank's computer and not the bits on the flash drive, but it's still bits that it depends on.

The examples it uses aren't accurate:

> Maybe you were thinking about similar ideas to mine and happened to put the words together in a similar way. If so, fine. But maybe you wrote "your" article by cutting and pasting from "mine" - in that case, the words have the Colour that obligates you to follow quotation procedures and worry about "derivative work" status under copyright law and so on.

As it turns out copyright law doesn't really care about this, even if people might expect it to, because the law is too pragmatic for that. Proving that you came up with some particular phrasing is hard. Disproving it is hard too. So in practice the courts don't look at whether you actually copied the bits. They look at whether you could have copied them ("access"), which they then go on to assume is the case for anything widely disseminated (since establishing that would be hard too), and then whether the bits are similar ("substantial similarity"):

https://www.theiplawblog.com/2007/02/articles/copyright-law/...

Whether you actually copied the bits doesn't come into consideration, apparently.

Because the courts can only take into consideration the information they have available to them. Which is all bits, because all information is bits.

> You take a file to which someone claims copyright, mix it up with a public file, and then the result, which is mixed-up garbage supposedly containing no information, is supposedly free of copyright claims even though someone else can later undo the mixing operation and produce a copy of the copyright-encumbered file you started with.

There is still no Colour here, and the essay is missing a rather decent practical attack on the "Colour theory" version of the copyright system.

Suppose Alice publishes R1 and Bob publishes R2. R1 is Alice's message xor Alice's one time pad. R2 is Bob's message xor Bob's one time pad. The one time pads are "random".

Then it's discovered that R1 xor R2 generates a third party copyrighted work. Which is statistically impossible unless either Alice or Bob (but not necessarily both) chose their one-time pad specifically in order to cause this.

According to "Colour theory" the one who chose their one-time pad specifically in order to cause this has given their ciphertext the "Colour" of the copyrighted work. But that's a real problem in practice when there is no way to tell which one it was. The other person may not even be in on it. So which one do you haul into court when you don't know that? Which one do you take down?

In real life if something like that becomes popular what happens is not that they figure out who it really was that created the derivative work, it's that they come up with some kind of disgusting hack like the DMCA takedown process which imposes no practical consequences on fraudulent takedowns, and hope that the innocent victims of the collateral damage don't have enough political clout to do anything about it.

It seems like the same fallacy as the model of the law that we teach to high school students. Computer scientists understand that it's wrong. Lawyers understand that it's wrong. But certain people benefit from pretending that it isn't in front of the general population because the misleading abstraction is prettier than what actually happens under the hood, and a better understanding of the latter would make people upset.

Re: What Colour are your bits? (2004)

#18
post #7

I think it would be better to think in terms of information theory, rather than the hypothetical color of bits. If I have a legally obtained copy of a copyrighted song (that is not permissively licensed), then I am restricted in my right to share copies. Certainly I can create a one-time pad and communicate that to someone, and I can XOR the bits of the song recording with that one-time pad, and the author would argu…

The moment you xor your one time pad (OTP) with the song to generate a ciphertext C, both OTP and C become, you could say, conditionally-colored.

You're not restricted in redistributing one, so long as you don't redistribute the other. If you redistribute both, even in different channels, logically that's a copyright violation unless you have sufficient controls or restrictions to prevent further redistribution until someone downstream from ending up with both and being able to recombine them.

Realistically, the only reason you'd generate C and distribute both OTP and C is so that someone eventually gets them both and can reconstruct the song. Trying to claim you didn't have that intent wouldn't work in a civil context, and might not even work in a criminal context.

Re: What Colour are your bits? (2004)

#19
I just read this about 5 years after it was published.

Working with computers the whole life and graduating in Law, I always had the problem of not understanding how my colleagues could think that the bits from one email where different from the bits of something else when you were doing a dd from one disk, or how reading one disk was "breaking" some correspondence secret....

Re: What Colour are your bits? (2004)

#20
post #14
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can XOR the bits of the song recording with that one-time pad, and the author would argue that I now have colorless bits. No, the author would say the opposite. That’s the whole point - the process by which you get to the bits matters.

OK, you are right, he is using "color" in a funny way to reflect the idea that the violation is somehow in those bits. But in my opinion, the violation is in the channel as a whole (the ciphertext, the one-time pad, and the instructions on how to decrypt, shared for the purpose of distributing copies), not because of "colored bits".

on the one hand, yeah it's funny and arbitrary. On the other hand, it's how at least the US legal system understands, litigates, and enforces IP laws
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