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Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in medieval windows (2017)

ceramics.org

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Re: Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in medieval windows (2017)

#71
>Their measurements reveal that medieval glass has a much lower viscosity than expected at room temperature—16 orders of magnitude less than previous estimates

It's pretty rare to read an article in which the degree of previous error is sixteen orders of magnitude.

Re: Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in medieval windows (2017)

#72
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, actually friction is closer to the truth. It's air running into air at a shock, a process that generates entropy, just as friction does. Compression is a process that is adiabatic, generating no entropy. And in an ideal gas the density increase across a shock reaches a finite limit even as the mach number goes to infinity.

I can't make sense of your claim. Compression could be done adiabatically, or not, but that doesn't mean it's isothermal or somehow inherently adiabatic. In fact, for it to be isothermal would require the transport away of compression heat, which would be decidedly non-adiabatic. The parent is correct.

I didn't say the compression was isothermal.

The parent is not correct. Compression occurs at a shock, but this is not heating due (solely) to adiabatic compression. This is clearly seen by considering the case where mach number goes to infinity: in that limit, the fraction of heating due to compression goes to zero (as the gas density remains below some finite limiting value.) What is causing heating is a dissipative process in the shock itself. This dissipative process is more akin to friction than it is to compression.

Re: Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in medieval windows (2017)

#73
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the HS teacher that told me this had a masters in Mech E. Or so he claimed, hmm...

It’s amazing a man would work for a masters degree and end up teaching mainly below average people at a public institution. What’s a masters degree worth?

Good lord this comment is condescending.

Some people are teachers because they want to be teachers, period. They find fulfillment in it.

That’s not even touching the unnecessary dig at public institutions.

Re: Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in medieval windows (2017)

#74
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it regarded as a failure? Teachers in public schools work part time for 25 years and get a scaling pension they “negotiated” with the politicians their union dues elected. I’d call them fantastic winners. Grifters? Sure. But certainly not losers.

> Teachers in public schools work part time Typically full-time and usually year round, though some work seasonally for about 3/4 year (but still full-time), with commensurately reduced annual pay.

You are simply full of it. Public school teachers are booked for around 180 days of teaching + admin work. I read my tax bill. This is like 36-38 (38 being generous) weeks of work per year. It’s 3 months off.

Re: Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in medieval windows (2017)

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am having trouble seeing how compression in a shock would be isentropic? Care to elaborate? And why passing through a shock (compression) is akin to friction, but not to compression?

Compression due to a shock is not isentropic. Parent is incorrect. This is basic gasdynamics. An accessible reference: Modern Compressible flow, by Anderson.

I didn't say compression at a shock was isentropic. I was saying the claim that compression at the shock could not be the cause of (all) the heating, unless you simply define heating at a shock as being due to compression. Instead, I think you should separate out the heating there into two parts: one due to isentropic compression, and one due to injection of additional entropy by dissipation at the shock.

Re: Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in medieval windows (2017)

#76
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because compression, as normally considered, does not generate entropy. It causes gas to become hotter because the temperature has to be higher for entropy to remain constant, as the volume is reduced. This is a reversible process. But shocks are inherently irreversible. But as my last sentence said, as the mach number goes to infinity the density increase across the shock is finite. Therefore, compression cannot be…

I have never seen compression to be considered inherently reversible, certainly not in the aerospace or hypersonics/reentry communities. I assume you come from a different background? Care to explain your second argument? Even when the density reaches a limit, the change in pressure over the shock does not, so you can pump in energy arbitrarily (of course your gas would dissociate at some point). The total pressure l…

Let's look up a definition.

"Compression: decrease in volume of any object or substance resulting from applied stress."

Compression refers to a reduction in volume, not an increase in pressure. This is finite for gas crossing a shock, even as the mach number goes to infinity.

Re: Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in medieval windows (2017)

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am having trouble seeing how compression in a shock would be isentropic? Care to elaborate? And why passing through a shock (compression) is akin to friction, but not to compression?

Compression due to a shock is not isentropic. Parent is incorrect. This is basic gasdynamics. An accessible reference: Modern Compressible flow, by Anderson.

Replying to myself since I guess there's a thread depth limit. Now what you are saying is making sense, your original post did not. Irreversibility (increase in entropy) across the shock does cause a significant temperature gain (and at re-entry speeds, nonequilibrium flow, radiation, etc.), but isentropic compression does as well. Still, the shock is a compression artifact, and while you can draw an analogy between the irreversibility within a shock and that in a friction process like in a viscous drag, the original poster's categorization of re-entry heating as compression heating is completely consistent with how practitioners in the gasdynamics community would categorize it.

Re: Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in medieval windows (2017)

#78
post #73
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s amazing a man would work for a masters degree and end up teaching mainly below average people at a public institution. What’s a masters degree worth?

Good lord this comment is condescending. Some people are teachers because they want to be teachers, period. They find fulfillment in it. That’s not even touching the unnecessary dig at public institutions.

Did you go to public schools? I did. The student body is mainly uninterested, incapable, or irredeemable. Some great diamonds in the ruff to be sure. But certainly these people would excel regardless of a 1-off actual good teacher seeing as most of them are just mailing it in, like their student body.

Why go to the trouble of getting a masters to waste it like this?

FWIW I don’t believe teachers should need a bachelors. A 2-year trade school should suffice.

Re: Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in medieval windows (2017)

#79
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teachers in public schools work part time Typically full-time and usually year round, though some work seasonally for about 3/4 year (but still full-time), with commensurately reduced annual pay.

You are simply full of it. Public school teachers are booked for around 180 days of teaching + admin work. I read my tax bill. This is like 36-38 (38 being generous) weeks of work per year. It’s 3 months off.

> You are simply full of it

Except your calculations support exactly what I said.

> It’s 3 months off.

Yes, it's typically 3 months off if they don't work summer session in a traditional schedule.

Which most who are able to (there are reduced available positions) do.

Hence, the full-time but, for some, 3/4-year seasonal full-time that I stated.

Re: Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in medieval windows (2017)

#80
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am having trouble seeing how compression in a shock would be isentropic? Care to elaborate? And why passing through a shock (compression) is akin to friction, but not to compression?

Because compression, as normally considered, does not generate entropy. It causes gas to become hotter because the temperature has to be higher for entropy to remain constant, as the volume is reduced. This is a reversible process. But shocks are inherently irreversible. But as my last sentence said, as the mach number goes to infinity the density increase across the shock is finite. Therefore, compression cannot be…

Look, where does this idea come in that compression "as normally considered, does not generate entropy"? The inlet of a supersonic aircraft or a ramjets/scramjet performs non-isentropic (shock-based) compression. You're coming up with your own definition of compression that is inconsistent with gasdynamics practice.
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