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Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

cbc.ca

121–130 of 184 posts

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#121

>The company also argued shoppers were made aware of the activity through decals it had placed on shopping mall entry doors that referred to Cadillac Fairview's privacy policy. Do what now? Physical spaces have privacy policies? We're really sleepwalking into a dystopia. If you don't like the privacy policy of your shopping mall, you're free to shop... online, where they get even more behavioral data on you. Yikes.

I have a privacy policy for people entering my dwelling or using my guest wifi.

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#122
post #107
post #15

If this is all privately held data that can't be accessed without a warrant... why not? Just so I'm clear, the argument against this is: - Merchants should be able to hire humans that sit around looking at camera screens all day trying to find shopping patterns, shoplifters, etc. - Any attempt to automate this tedious task is dystopian and evil ?

"Merchants should be able to hire humans that sit around looking at camera screens all day trying to find shopping patterns, shoplifters, etc." There is no identification part in what you describe. Generic stats (how many person in the queue, etc.) are okay. The issue is not facial detection but facial recognition. They stored model of faces associated with data which mean they could point a camera at anyone in the s…

You're telling me humans can't recognize faces? Consider a security guard who sits at the entrance to a store and watches people come in. What are the chances he would facially recognize a repeat shoplifting offender?

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#123
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A piece of data on its own is usually pretty harmless, a gigantic database that is organized, categorized, and distributed, is potentially very harmful. And it's a smooth gradient between them. An example of data that is harmless on its own but harmful at scale is license plate reading. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/03/we-know-where-yo... a few points tells you that a person is in a city, a few more tells…

Do you use a credit card? Why are you so upset about this dataset but not that dataset? Honest question.

I am definitely not happy about that either.

Having a card is just as unavoidable as needing to go to the shopping centre to buy groceries, so this isn't even a case where "if you don't like it don't use it" applies

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#125
post #119
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a government problem, not a privacy problem. If your government is intent on detaining and torturing dissidents, then privacy laws aren't going to stop them. Who do you think makes and enforces the law? The solution to that is to change your government.

The US is one of the most democratic nations on Earth. The NSA spies on its own citizens, and won't even tell congress how. https://ca.reuters.com/article/ctech-us-usa-security-congres... The CBP is buying location data on US citizens, tracking them without a warrant, country wide (not just at borders), and won't say why/how: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/dems-call-for-cbp-location-data-in... Police, the FBI, and more us…

So if we make it illegal for the mall to have security cameras then the NSA will stop spying on people?

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#126
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Canada, do you even really have a right to privacy when in public spaces like a shopping mall? Yes, you do, because while a shopping mall might be considered a "public space," it is private property owned by a private organization. In Canada the PIPEDA [1] covers this federally, though the law is written such that it is a backstop, and provinces are free to enact their own "substantially similar" (or stricter) l…

Personal information under these laws are defined as: age, name, ID numbers, income, ethnic origin, or blood type; opinions, evaluations, comments, social status, or disciplinary actions; and employee files, credit records, loan records, medical records, existence of a dispute between a consumer and a merchant, intentions (for example, to acquire goods or services, or change jobs). How does video of people passing by…

The intent to buy things in the mall (or not) for one

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#127
post #125
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is one of the most democratic nations on Earth. The NSA spies on its own citizens, and won't even tell congress how. https://ca.reuters.com/article/ctech-us-usa-security-congres... The CBP is buying location data on US citizens, tracking them without a warrant, country wide (not just at borders), and won't say why/how: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/dems-call-for-cbp-location-data-in... Police, the FBI, and more us…

So if we make it illegal for the mall to have security cameras then the NSA will stop spying on people?

No, you make the data collection illegal and with liability like it appears Canada already did hence why this company is in trouble with regulators.

Data should be legally made in to toxic waste we all know it should be treated as.

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#128
https://www.cadillacfairview.com/en_CA/news/CF-opc-investiga...

It was a beta test run 2 years ago. Someone ran fast and broke things and were probably fired. Take off your tinfoil hat and relax.

CF doesn't care who the individuals are or their identities, though general demographics would probably be interesting. They certainly have signs up at every entrance clearly indicating that you are on camera, but I think they are actually surprised about the biometrics data being stored offsite. I suspect they didn't understand this when they setup the AVA trial.

They use analytics on the WiFi based on MAC as well as Internet use.

This data is used to determine the number of unique users that pass by different parts of the mall to identify high traffic and 'dead zones'. They use different marketing programs to increase traffic to dead zones and can justify higher rent in high traffic zones.

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#129
post #128

https://www.cadillacfairview.com/en_CA/news/CF-opc-investiga... It was a beta test run 2 years ago. Someone ran fast and broke things and were probably fired. Take off your tinfoil hat and relax. CF doesn't care who the individuals are or their identities, though general demographics would probably be interesting. They certainly have signs up at every entrance clearly indicating that you are on camera, but I think th…

Haha take your tinfoil hat off? No one is stating this is some sort of CIA operation. But the idea that all this stuff just sits collecting dust overlooked in a datacenter forever is naïve. Data is gold, and it's traded and monetized at an incredibly high frequency. Your statement that the data is only used in a static fashion for low impact implementation related functions belies the fact that in 2-3 years when the implementing company loses funding and becomes an asset heap some smart PE investor will connect the dots, get the right team together and extract value from the data and sell off the assets. You're either naïve or willfully ignorant if you think this is totally "okay".

Re: Mall real estate company collected 5M images of shoppers

#130
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never turn on wifi or bluetooth away from home, my question is, are they doing LTE data collection too?

>are they doing LTE data collection too? Don't cell carriers already sell your "anonymized" location data to marketers?

How is that even legal?! I mean I know the gov gets their data via abuse of the third party doctrine, but just straight up selling your data? If I had to guess they slap a dubious label of"anonymized" data...
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