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Can too many brainy people be a dangerous thing?

economist.com

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Re: Can too many brainy people be a dangerous thing?

#241

Post by joe_biden123 »

elindbe2 wrote: post #193
asdff wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you mark people in pursuit of domain knowledge for the wider world as some evil elite, when there are people who exist to solely pursue personal profit at the cost of everyone else. These capitalists are the ones buying political adspace, spreading misinformation, and driving a wedge in the working class that directly leads to the polarized hyperpartisan political environment we have today. Not some…

I have to disagree that many of these programs are pursuing "knowledge" at all. They're pursuing a victim mentality and simply make up rationalizations as they go along and call it knowledge. And they're the ones filing into positions in the mainstream media and other circles (like social media gatekeepers) devoted to spreading misinformation.

the important part is they are all "elites", and whether their work is productive or not is not that important. they are separated from the masses at lagre by something. it could be college education or senatorial status or a noble title the details doesn't matter. they are elites doesn't mean they are "evil", and all societies need elites. there are just some positions they compete for and if there are not enough to go around sociaty can pay for it. the important part is not to overproduce elites

Re: Can too many brainy people be a dangerous thing?

#242

Post by teruakohatu »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #94
Pet_Ant wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Downton Abbey class All I find online is references online to some TV show. Is there another term for these people?

Landed Gentry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landed_gentry

I would interpret Downton Abbey class as British peers (nobility). The characters that had estates but no titles were Landed gentry.

Re: Can too many brainy people be a dangerous thing?

#243

Post by pksebben »

jahaja wrote: post #237
pksebben wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making it more expensive translates to a lack of supply - the government has far more limited resources than huge real estate development firms. The pipes thing is just an example. Of course, this is one of a great many factors that make it nigh-impossible to get affordable government housing built. Not the least of which is the actual expense of land vs. cash-strapped local governments (who are broke because our tax…

Sorry but to imagine that labour costs and unions are somehow responsible for the housing shortage is just a strange distraction. We had labour unions in Sweden with good working conditions & benefits etc etc all along that period. The goal to inflate the price of housing is the main issue.

You're absolutely right - that is the main issue. I'm not suggesting for a moment that fixing labor union litigation would fix housing. It wouldn't.

I was using the pipes as an accessible example of what is a single piece of a very, very large mosaic.

The assertion I intended to make was precisely this: That it is impossible to point to a single bad actor (although, you are likely correct in pointing out the most egregious of them). The core issue (IMO, the thing to fix) is that the system of incentives that surrounds the developers, contractors, politicians, homeowners, and everyone else involved rewards slicing the pie over making more pie. Adding value, when it's easier to litigate your way into aquiring a larger share of existing value, is pointless from any individual's standpoint.

Take a look at the debacle that surrounded the Stuyvesant Town housing projects - this is a case where this sort of pie-slicing quite nearly made it through, but was struck down by the courts. I use this example because due to it's failure the techniques involved are clearly visible:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/01/america...

...my central assertion is that the pipes and deals like this are motivated by the same underlying socioeconomic factors. And too many lawyers.

Re: Can too many brainy people be a dangerous thing?

#244

Post by Kalium »

jahaja wrote: post #197
DubiousPusher wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, in fact direct agricultural labor accounts for fewer than a million jobs in the U.S. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/farming-fishing-and-forestry/agricul... One place where technology is struggling to make an impact is in housing. Even ignoring the farcical inflation of land prices in some municipalities, the price of a building itself has not decreased in cost similar to other durable goods. This is in part due to con…

The profit/investment motive is fundamentally behind the scarcity of affordable housing.

Do you have a good example of removing the profit/investment motive and the result being enough housing for everyone?

Re: Can too many brainy people be a dangerous thing?

#245

Post by joe_biden123 »

dusted wrote: post #22

Stupid people who think they're smart because they have a fancy education and are rewarded with high salary, that's probably a dangerous "brainy elite". Along with stupid people who just so happened to get a ton of money by no merit of their own, but don't realize this.

the education takes work and they are raised to believe they will be rewarded for it. "fancy education" isn't something useless. read the article. there are 25000+ layers formed every year who can't find a job. lawyers do important jobs it's just there aren't enough jobs for them. there are too many humanity majors too. stem people think they are superior but they also are part of this overproduuced elites. more and more people are educated in stem and soon the demand for them will saturate and their salaries will drop. there is just no control over universities and no planning for the future they let too many people in and the economy can't absorb them. "useless" humanity majors in the past would have gotten jobs teaching or doing research but there's too many of them. society is paying the price

Re: Can too many brainy people be a dangerous thing?

#246

Post by jahaja »

Kalium wrote: post #244
jahaja wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The profit/investment motive is fundamentally behind the scarcity of affordable housing.

Do you have a good example of removing the profit/investment motive and the result being enough housing for everyone?

Yes, Sweden ~1990. There was an agency responsible for adapting housing availability after need. If there was a shortage, it was acted upon. Then the whole homeownership wave, markets etc came.

Re: Can too many brainy people be a dangerous thing?

#247

Post by bumby »

pksebben wrote: post #209
DubiousPusher wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, in fact direct agricultural labor accounts for fewer than a million jobs in the U.S. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/farming-fishing-and-forestry/agricul... One place where technology is struggling to make an impact is in housing. Even ignoring the farcical inflation of land prices in some municipalities, the price of a building itself has not decreased in cost similar to other durable goods. This is in part due to con…

I had to look up the link, but you reminded me of this: https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a20622/watch-the... ...It doesn't look anywhere close to market-ready, but goddamn what a gamechanger once it is.

Interesting and related: how 3D printing may be leveraged

https://www.usace.army.mil/Media/News-Archive/Story-Article-...

Re: Can too many brainy people be a dangerous thing?

#248

Post by joe_biden123 »

dalbasal wrote: post #18

"Cliodynamics" sounds a lot like psychohistory. I always appreciated azimov as a sci-fi writer for psychohistory. Sci fi and fantasy have a common form where it's the world and regular people, but a technology (or magic) exists. The world + the fictional technology make the setting for the story. Usually the device is a time machine or magic hat. In Asimov's story, the device is a theory. I always thought making the…

the theory works for many kind of surpluses. if there are too many engineers and scientists and not enough jobs for them it's a problem. this also applies to any kind of elites: someone who considers himself above the general population: medieval nobles, roman senators, programmers. too many of them and it's a problem. you can read turchin's scientific articles, he uses data from different societies (widely different) and his equations seem to work to predict instability

Re: Can too many brainy people be a dangerous thing?

#249

Post by Kalium »

jahaja wrote: post #246
Kalium wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a good example of removing the profit/investment motive and the result being enough housing for everyone?

Yes, Sweden ~1990. There was an agency responsible for adapting housing availability after need. If there was a shortage, it was acted upon. Then the whole homeownership wave, markets etc came.

That's fascinating! Is there anything I could read about this? I would love to hear more about a rich first-world country being able to meet literally everyone's housing needs fully and in a timely manner without using a market economy.

Re: Can too many brainy people be a dangerous thing?

#250

Post by jahaja »

Kalium wrote: post #249
jahaja wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Sweden ~1990. There was an agency responsible for adapting housing availability after need. If there was a shortage, it was acted upon. Then the whole homeownership wave, markets etc came.

That's fascinating! Is there anything I could read about this? I would love to hear more about a rich first-world country being able to meet literally everyone's housing needs fully and in a timely manner without using a market economy.

This is a good start: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Programme
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