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It’s dangerous to think humans have a destiny outside Earth

techeffect.substack.com

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Re: It’s dangerous to think humans have a destiny outside Earth

#61

Post by jimbob45 »

GenerocUsername wrote: post #3

I've seen more anti-space rhetoric in the last few weeks than ever before in my life. What gives? Great advancements have cost. That doesn't make them not worth doing

Trump tweeted that he wants to go to space. The anti-Trump crowd is conjuring reasons of why that’s bad now.

In reality, NASA’s budget is a rounding error in the context of the US budget - 0.4% of the federal budget. Further, SpaceX presents a realistic path forward to privatizing Mars travel, trivializing the budgetary concerns anyway.

Re: It’s dangerous to think humans have a destiny outside Earth

#62

Post by avz »

Earth is a graveyard of species. Looking at the geological record, more than 99% of species that ever existed here have gone extinct [1]. Overwhelming majority of them long before we showed up. And in any case, this planet will not support life forever [2].

Believing we have no destiny outside Earth is believing we have no destiny at all.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_Earth

Re: It’s dangerous to think humans have a destiny outside Earth

#63

Post by dqpb »

save_ferris wrote: post #43
dqpb wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposite is true. Investing in space exploration improves our ability to face climate change on our planet.

I think investing in space exploration improves some people's ability to face climate change on our planet. It's hard to see a scenario where everyone in the world would benefit from it, given the incredible advancement of private space flight. Don't get me wrong, it's amazing what those companies have been able to accomplish. But we can't pretend like the entirety of humanity benefits from it when access to that kin…

You could make that argument about any new technology over the last couple hundred years, and it would prove to be a vacuous argument. A rising tide lifts all boats.

Re: It’s dangerous to think humans have a destiny outside Earth

#64

Post by MereInterest »

peteradio wrote: post #49
grawprog wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've posted this before, but I see terraforming other planets as a necessary step to learn how to take care of the Earth. This thinking seems backwards. How can we learn to take a totally dead planet and make it living when we can't even figure out how to keep this one healthy?

I doubt the person you are replying to is suggesting that full scale terraforming is possible in a fraction of a million years. But perhaps smaller scale insightful experiments might be done without fear of wiping out life in our solar system.

Exactly. What happens if we have a swarm of satellites to divert/concentrate a large amount of solar radiation? What happens if we geo-engineer bacteria to precipitate out greenhouse gases? How long does it take for particulate matter to settle after diverting an asteroid to impact the planet? If we can make oceans, how does the size of oceans affect the absorption of new asteroid deliveries?

Mars and Venus are, as far as every experiment has shown, dead as doornails. Using them as a testbed for experiments that are too dangerous to do on Earth without first practicing is a good use for them.

Re: It’s dangerous to think humans have a destiny outside Earth

#65

Post by bryanlarsen »

res0nat0r wrote: post #56
save_ferris wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that great advancements have cost. The argument is that focusing on space exploration deflects from facing the realities of climate change on our planet. If people start to think that space exploration could yield a solution to an increasingly uninhabitable climate on Earth, it could create a scenario where we spend even more on space exploration and less on addressing Earth's climate.

If Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk (while Elon isn't posting moronic nonsense on Twitter) would take all the money they've invested in their pet projects trying to colonize Mars and the like and directly invested it in local programs to get some of the worst areas in the USA affected by homelessness fixed, it would likely have a greater impact on more peoples lives than what they're doing now IMO.

I'd take the other side of that bet if it was possible. Just one of the many things that the money has enabled is 100Mbps internet to the entire globe.

Re: It’s dangerous to think humans have a destiny outside Earth

#66

Post by dantheman »

samvher wrote: post #25
arcticbull wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO there's 8 billion of us, we can do both.

Then let's do both, and not just space exploration.

Do you honestly think people are focusing more on exploration than other things? We already do both.

Re: It’s dangerous to think humans have a destiny outside Earth

#67

Post by avz »

zekrioca wrote: post #52
ovi256 wrote: post #29

This is a restatement of the "we shouldn't do anything in Space until we solve (all/most/the most important) problems on Earth" argument. If our ancestors would have used this they'd never would have, say, colonized the Americas, or even left Africa. Because there's always something broken at home. Has there been a single moment in history that would have satisfied that argument ?

There were people living in the Americas before your ancestors arrived there.

Not the OP, but I suppose one can read their comment as referring to the original colonizers who crossed the Bering strait, not those who crossed the Atlantic.

Re: It’s dangerous to think humans have a destiny outside Earth

#68

Post by sebow »

For the moment, sure, but i think the issue here is that people do not realise the power of our planet and rush to conclusions such as "this planet is doomed in X years" etc. I would make the guess the planet itself can sustain human life at least for hundreds if not thousands of years more from now on.

Of course, this is assuming people become more & remain responsible.But if history taught us anything i would also say that looks to be happening. Lastly, ironically the people who are the most alarmists about climate change are the ones who don't abide by their own words(See hollywood for example).This doesn't mean should postpone efficiency on earth & the growth of life(which sadly has happened a lot in modern history).

Re: It’s dangerous to think humans have a destiny outside Earth

#69

Post by brundolf »

kstenerud wrote: post #10

> Indeed, the idea that technological developments will solve all of our problems —eventually allowing us to leave Earth — is instrumental to political mobilization on behalf of the powers that be. It helps to perpetuate the current socio-economic system that is designed for the one percent to stay in power and the working class to stay working. Sorry to say, but almost EVERYTHING big that happens on this planet help…

I agree that they made some big leaps when turning this into a narrative, but I think there's truth to the basic premise that focusing too much on a hypothetical future amongst the stars - which at best would be harsh, difficult, and miserable - serves as a distraction against the very real and very urgent and very solvable problems facing our species and habitat as it exists right now.

Even if we managed interstellar travel (and that's a big if), it's highly unlikely we would ever find anything remotely as good as Earth, when it comes to being tuned precisely for our human needs. Evolution has geared us for this world. We might be able to cobble together a survival elsewhere, but I doubt we could ever thrive.

Beyond that: space exploration and research obviously still has value. It's just that it's a very long-term and theoretical value, and at this particular moment in history there are much more pressing concerns.

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