Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission • Hacker News Board

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#151

Post by icebraining » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 4:03 PM UTC

kop316 wrote: post #115

ghthrowaway99 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[ Disclaimer: GH employee but speaking independently & not representing the company in this message ] You're mixing up controversies - there was a separate "feature" Grubhub did years ago where grubhub would stand up online presence for restaurants to bring in web search traffic (branded websites, search results on grubhub.com, etc) and list a grubhub phone number instead of the real phone number so that grubhub coul…

"Grubhub was against place and pay at first, when UberEats and Doordash began doing it (not because Grubhub is selfless but because partnered restaurants are way more profitable), but resisting place and pay turned out to be a recipe for losing market share so that's no longer the case." If Grubhub actually took a stand and showed they not only did not do this sort of behavior, I would actually use it, and I would pa…

I don't get it, how would the restaurant be losing money from this behaviour? Isn't Grubhub paying the regular takeout price, same as if you order it yourself?

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#152

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 4:06 PM UTC

nobody9999 wrote: post #105

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they have to ask for permission to present themselves as an agent of the company, which they do when they present their own phone number as the restaurant phone number. So I imagine the lawsuit will have many legs to stand on. This is business, which has many rules. Its not just 'do whatever you like as long as it makes money'.

>Yes they have to ask for permission to present themselves as an agent of the company, which they do when they present their own phone number as the restaurant phone number. So I imagine the lawsuit will have many legs to stand on. Except they don't. In fact, they register domain names and set fake websites that say they are the restaurant when they're not. They set up phone numbers that route through Grubhub/Seamles…

[deleted]

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#153

Post by nobody9999 » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 4:06 PM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #64

chrisseaton wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's clearly some kind of fraud or misrepresentation. I don't really understand this point of view. They're saying you'll get food from restaurant X. That's exactly what you do get, at the price you agreed. I can't conceive how that's fraud or misrepresentation?

When you click on a number to call the restaurant and not the restaurant answers it is fraud if the restaurant did not agree on that. Doesn't matter if you end of providing the exact same service. What if I picked up calls going to Apple and all I did was transfer you to the correct person. You are still getting the same service if you called Apple directly but its not legal because Apple did not give me permission t…

>What if I picked up calls going to Apple and all I did was transfer you to the correct person. You are still getting the same service if you called Apple directly but its not legal because Apple did not give me permission to impersonate them.

You're missing the part about how GrubHub, et. al don't just pass you along, they charge 12-30% "commission" just for forwarding the call -- and they set up the fake number just so they could do so.

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#154

Post by loceng » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 4:07 PM UTC

TuringNYC wrote: post #60

mabbo wrote: post #19

I hope there's a strong precedent set here. Companies like Grubhub list restaurants on their site/app, but put the wrong phone number on it- one that goes to their own people instead. That's clearly some kind of fraud or misrepresentation. Makes me feel like I should setup a phone number and a website called something like "GrubhubHelp.com", and list a help number for assistance with GrubHub orders. Then when custome…

FYI - the same thing happens with Hotels.com. When you "call the hotel" with the number listed, I learned that the representative is actually a Hotels.com rep, not a hotel employee or hotel call-center employee. This matters. In my case, I asked about my corporate discount and they gave me a vague answer about "I dont see anything in the system", which I guess was technically not a lie, but definitely deceitful. I wi…

I had to recently book a hotel for a few nights. Hotels are mostly empty because of COVID. When I called to book a room it was clearly a script being followed with high pressure tactics including saying rooms are filling up quickly. Once I arrived at the hotel it looked mostly dead, and I when I asked the manager who was helping me behind the counter, he said they were at 10% capacity. It should also be illegal for businesses to misrepresent their inventory.

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#155

Post by Cyclone_ » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 4:09 PM UTC

mrguyorama wrote: post #13

s_dev wrote: post #7

Trading under another brands name -- by listing them as an ordering place with an unofficial dark kitchen associated in your app -- seems like the most egregious form of trade mark infringement. Why aren't GrubHub concerned about the legal reprecussions of this?

>Why aren't GrubHub concerned about the legal reprecussions of this? When is the last time a company was SERIOUSLY threatened by the repercussions of doing something illegal in the US? When was the last time a company was fined/sued out of existence for something they were doing to average people?

I believe there's been for profit colleges that were sued out of existence

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#156

Post by danuker » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 4:09 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #130

TuringNYC wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI - the same thing happens with Hotels.com. When you "call the hotel" with the number listed, I learned that the representative is actually a Hotels.com rep, not a hotel employee or hotel call-center employee. This matters. In my case, I asked about my corporate discount and they gave me a vague answer about "I dont see anything in the system", which I guess was technically not a lie, but definitely deceitful. I wi…

Just ask a random question only a real hotel employee would know - like "What time is breakfast served?"

I suppose you should know this also, to detect a lie.

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#157

Post by icebraining » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 4:10 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #107

LandR wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WHat if the delivery person that grubhub uses is useless and the regular delivery person that Restaurant X uses isn't. YOu can end up getting poorly delivered cold food from GrubHub and make restaurant X look bad. Restaurant X might end up having a load of disappointed customers, reduced custom and have no idea why. They dont know there is actually now a middle man they didn't agree to between them and their customer…

You’re attacking the first sale doctrine here though if you think about it!

First-sale doctrine doesn't allow you to impersonate other companies. Nobody is saying Grubhub can't resell meals, they just have to be clear it's them who are doing the selling.

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#158

Post by ojnabieoot » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 4:11 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #137

s_dev wrote: post #7

Trading under another brands name -- by listing them as an ordering place with an unofficial dark kitchen associated in your app -- seems like the most egregious form of trade mark infringement. Why aren't GrubHub concerned about the legal reprecussions of this?

If I sell you some 2nd hand Lego bricks, the same logic aplies. I am not affiliated with Lego, yet the thing I am selling was legitimately made by Lego a while ago. When I describe what I'm selling, I clearly say I am offering lego bricks for sale. Here grubhub seems to be doing the exact same thing with food. Hard to see how one can be illegal while the other isn't.

No, this situation would only be analogous if you listed yourself as “Official LEGO(TM) Store” and had a link to LEGO.com on your Amazon profile, and you had “contact LEGO Sales by phone” but the listed phone number was actually your private line, and LEGO did not give you permission for any of this.

The obtuseness in these comments is really something else.

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#159

Post by nogabebop23 » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 4:11 PM UTC

doc_gunthrop wrote: post #136

ghthrowaway99 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[ Disclaimer: GH employee but speaking independently & not representing the company in this message ] You're mixing up controversies - there was a separate "feature" Grubhub did years ago where grubhub would stand up online presence for restaurants to bring in web search traffic (branded websites, search results on grubhub.com, etc) and list a grubhub phone number instead of the real phone number so that grubhub coul…

> The restaurant can opt out of this, but they never asked for the service in the first place so it's kinda shitty. That's what this article is about. If the driver places the order without making it clear to the restauranteur that they are the middleman company (UberEats, Doordash, etc.) then the opt-out clause is meaningless. You can't opt out of something you're never aware of.

yes - this is not "opt out", it's not even "default opt-in" like the telecoms got spanked for a few years ago, because they have no pre-existing relationship. It's fraudulent representation.

Re: Grubhub sued for listing restaurants without permission

#160

Post by nogabebop23 » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 4:15 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #93

ghthrowaway99 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[ Disclaimer: GH employee but speaking independently & not representing the company in this message ] You're mixing up controversies - there was a separate "feature" Grubhub did years ago where grubhub would stand up online presence for restaurants to bring in web search traffic (branded websites, search results on grubhub.com, etc) and list a grubhub phone number instead of the real phone number so that grubhub coul…

To a first approximation, I can't really see why Place and Pay should be illegal. It's basically paying the neighbor kid to go pick up some dinner for you, writ large. It "competes" with any delivery service a restaurant runs, but if the restaurant offers takeout at all, it's hard for me to see why the market should care who is doing the taking out.

Hey, if it's just fast food why does the market even care who prepares it? How long till these food "delivery" services just capture all the addressable market masquerading as a bunch of uninformed, non-participating restaurants and make the food they deliver? Why are they leaving all this extra margin on the table?