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Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

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Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#101

Post by pulse7 »

qayxc wrote: post #87
pulse7 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You buy a copy of Windows binary code. In Germany you can even resell your copy of Windows binary code - for example when selling your old computer to somebody else.

> You buy a copy of Windows binary code. No you don't. You buy a limited license to use and replicate the binary for personal use. You don't "buy" anything but the physical medium the binary code shipped on. Transferring ownership of a medium containing the binary code to a third party (bought or otherwise) ends your license to use the binary, no matter if you retain a physical copy. You also don't have the right to…

This may be true in US, but in Germany it is not... and this was decided by Germany's supreme court...

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#102

Post by darkcha0s »

dcuthbertson wrote: post #85
driverdan wrote: post #55

Yet another reason why centralized code signing is anti-user and a net negative. You should be able to easily install anything you want on your computer.

Well, Msft attempts to use HCK/HLK to help ensure that the drivers out there are more stable. Once upon a time, there was no signing and some drivers caused the very unfriendly BSOD and Msft got the blame. There are a lot fewer of those today than there were before Msft insisted upon testing/signing things.

Back in the day my Windows system would BSOD every other week for no apparent reason. I cant remember the last time I had that on my Win10 machine; I guess this was an overall improvement to consumers. I sympathise with the driver creators here, but I wouldn't want to go back to those BSOD times, just so that some niche drivers can be signed on Win7 systems.

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#103

Post by darkcha0s »

driverdan wrote: post #51
doikor wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft did (still?) offer a free upgrade path from Windows 7/8 to Windows 10 for years so I doubt this is really for "getting money from our customers" but more "we want to stop supporting these old platforms at some point"

They still make money on free Win10 by spying on your activity, showing ads, and aggressively pushing purchase from their store.

Strange, I run windows 10 and I never see ads, and I've never used the windows store either. We all know you're exaggerating massively with the spying as well, but hey, MS Haters will be haters.

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#104

Post by varispeed »

fooqux wrote: post #32
varispeed wrote: post #25

What Microsoft is doing should be illegal. If you buy a product, you should be able to use it throughout your lifetime or until the product naturally cease to operate. In this case, Microsoft should release an open source tool to cross sign the drivers if they don't want to support it or add an update that disables checking for signatures. If a company can disable software features in the future, then you are no buyi…

>If you buy a product... Ah, but you don't buy this, you license it. That's where they get you. I agree it's very anti-consumer, but it's going to get worse. > Imagine if you bought a car and then 5 years later company rep would come in and welded the wheels so that you wouldn't be able to upgrade your tires. Did I mention it will get worse? Maybe not with the silly welding tires example, but we're basically there. J…

It's like buying a property with a charge and restrictions on it. Some of these restrictions should be made illegal. There is no business case for them apart from extracting money from customers for no value for them. Any restriction should only be legal if it helps the product to work as intended or is required by any health and safety regulations. A restriction that forces customer to buy an "upgraded" product should never be allowed.

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#105

Post by varispeed »

interestica wrote: post #40
varispeed wrote: post #25

What Microsoft is doing should be illegal. If you buy a product, you should be able to use it throughout your lifetime or until the product naturally cease to operate. In this case, Microsoft should release an open source tool to cross sign the drivers if they don't want to support it or add an update that disables checking for signatures. If a company can disable software features in the future, then you are no buyi…

Adobe now prevents the reinstallation of CS2 and CS3 (even with original install discs). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24865450

This desperately needs to be regulated. Companies should not be allowed to do this. How is it different from extortion?

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#106

Post by varispeed »

FreakyT wrote: post #29
varispeed wrote: post #25

What Microsoft is doing should be illegal. If you buy a product, you should be able to use it throughout your lifetime or until the product naturally cease to operate. In this case, Microsoft should release an open source tool to cross sign the drivers if they don't want to support it or add an update that disables checking for signatures. If a company can disable software features in the future, then you are no buyi…

Completely agree -- this is even worse for mobile phones, where often it's impossible to even upgrade the OS past the one it shipped with. The second a company stops supporting a product, they should be legally required to fully unlock the bootloader/drivers/etc.

Don't forget about OS updates that disable phone features. For example Samsung ran an update that disabled phone call recording. If you wanted a phone so you can record your calls to elderly parents to have memories of them, you could no longer do that after updating the phone and there was no warning that such update does that.

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#107

Post by justinclift »

Silhouette wrote: post #68
mrguyorama wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Windows 7 PC was never forcibly upgraded. I don't know what you are talking about

Forced is clearly the wrong word, but Microsoft's push to move users of older Windows versions onto 10 was aggressive and, some have argued, wilfully deceptive. The bottom line is that someone previously using Windows 7 who followed the advice about promptly installing recommended updates would probably now be running Windows 10. To avoid that, you had to know what was going on and actively do something else, and the…

> Forced is clearly the wrong word ...

No, it's not. Many users had their Win 7 computer "upgraded" to Win 10 even when they expressly didn't want that to happen.

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#108

Post by zineketter »

qayxc wrote: post #87
pulse7 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You buy a copy of Windows binary code. In Germany you can even resell your copy of Windows binary code - for example when selling your old computer to somebody else.

> You buy a copy of Windows binary code. No you don't. You buy a limited license to use and replicate the binary for personal use. You don't "buy" anything but the physical medium the binary code shipped on. Transferring ownership of a medium containing the binary code to a third party (bought or otherwise) ends your license to use the binary, no matter if you retain a physical copy. You also don't have the right to…

You might want to read the EULA (it has a specific provision for Germany and Austria by the way). Soething that is true in the US isn't necessarily true in other places.

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#109

Post by zineketter »

varispeed wrote: post #105
interestica wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adobe now prevents the reinstallation of CS2 and CS3 (even with original install discs). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24865450

This desperately needs to be regulated. Companies should not be allowed to do this. How is it different from extortion?

You have missed an important fact: Adobe was planning this all along in 2013 and actually offered fully offline installers (includimg activation) for qualifying versions. This is definitely a bummer if you haven't redeem it, but Adobe have publicly (might be questionable, but we have received a mail about it) stated that.

TLDR: You're screwed if you did nothing for 7 years that the redeem option is available.

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#110

Post by Silhouette »

justinclift wrote: post #107
Silhouette wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forced is clearly the wrong word, but Microsoft's push to move users of older Windows versions onto 10 was aggressive and, some have argued, wilfully deceptive. The bottom line is that someone previously using Windows 7 who followed the advice about promptly installing recommended updates would probably now be running Windows 10. To avoid that, you had to know what was going on and actively do something else, and the…

> Forced is clearly the wrong word ... No, it's not. Many users had their Win 7 computer "upgraded" to Win 10 even when they expressly didn't want that to happen.

I'm literally typing this message on a Windows 7 PC. If Microsoft had forced those to upgrade to Windows 10, how is that possible?
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