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I Violated a Code of Conduct

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Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#451

Post by choeger »

So they were a keynote speaker and yet noone in the conference team looked at the slides before the keynote or someone did look at the slides and did not see a problem.

What that indicates to me first and foremost is that this is a poorly organized conference. I would expect that every single speaker is asked for at least a draft of their slides a few weeks before the presentation. Either ignoring the keynote speaker or not supporting them in such a bizarre case speaks volumes about the organizers. They simply don't seem to care about the content of the conference that much.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#452

Post by taneq »

closeparen wrote: post #353
taneq wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The core problem with the self-esteem movement is that they try to promote high self-esteem disconnected from any true achievement or worth . High self-esteem certainly correlates with healthy, successful people (of course healthy successful people have good self esteem!) but trying to artificially inflate peoples' self esteem to create health and success is driving the causation backwards. Self esteem devoid of any…

Earlier this year I had the occasion to do some reading on self-esteem, self-confidence, and self-love. I think this critique is a bit divorced from what the psychologists are actually saying. For starters, the "movement" is definitely aware of your dichotomy. The terms of art are contingent and non-contingent . It considers contingent self-esteem to be fragile because real lives contain setbacks. Its position is bas…

Thanks for that link - I'd honestly not thought to read the wiki page on it but it looks quite comprehensive.

The discussion of narcissism on that page is a bit different to the one I'd been working with (which was based on a lot of reading about cluster-B personality disorders including Narcissistic Personality Disorder) which might explain the discrepancy. But then, I'm not a professional so I'm happy to be corrected. (Edit: Of course as a professional I'm even more happy to be corrected, that's how you become less wrong!)

Edit: I was basing my understanding of "what psychologists are actually saying" on a bunch of kids books we have which have a page at the back written by psychologists (I haven't checked their credentials) which lines up with my 'unfounded optimism' definition of 'good self esteem'. I know there are other interpretations once you get to legitimate psychology and stoicism actually seems fairly effective.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#453

Post by erichocean »

_kst_ wrote: post #443
erichocean wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, organizations and/or projects with a CoC are frequently humorless, causing more harm than they prevent. You hate to see it. Pro tip: If you can't figure out that Jeremy freaking Howard is a good person that you are lucky to have around, the problem is you.

Did you mean to say "isn't"?

Thanks, fixed it.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#454

Post by roenxi »

ALittleLight wrote: post #325
newscracker wrote: post #184

After reading the entire post, I feel really bad for him, and I hope he gets the time off and the support necessary to recover from this incident. I also feel quite angry with how he has been treated. So please let me vent it out here as politely as I’m able to. I can imagine something like this or worse happening on social media groups, but an ostentatious “committee” that listens only to one side and never gives th…

Rebuilt? Why? Do you read the code of conduct when you attend a conference? Personally, I haven't even read the code of conduct for my job, and certainly wouldn't read one if I was speaking at or attending a conference. The CoCs are completely unnecessary and, as shown in this example, arbitrarily enforced. In the blog post I read that their CoC prohibits threats and assaults. Consider how silly that is. If someone's…

> The CoCs are completely unnecessary and...

If there are multiple organisers of a conference then it makes sense for them to talk amongst themselves, decide what they disagree on, and document it.

Say I believe no swearing and no pink shirts and my co-organiser thinks no swearing and no blue shirts. It makes sense for us to sit down before the conference and document our official stance on those issues. Then when I see someone wearing a pink (or blue) shirt I know how to respond without starting a fight on the day with my co-organiser. That sort of CoC makes sense - one that the organisers use to settle their own disputes.

CoC implemented as part of some sort of rules-lawyering process are a waste of time. The as-written CoC is meaningless compared to what people organising the conference agree on.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#455

Post by thiht »

> the anti-CoC crowd might jump on this as an example of problems with codes of conduct more generally, or might point at this as part of “cancel culture” (a concept I vehemently disagree with, since what is referred to as “cancellation” is often just “facing consequences”).

This is an amazing example of cognitive dissonance. The guy gets cancelled for basically nothing by a self appointed jury, which is exactly what is referred to when talking about cancel culture, and will still disagree about the concept. Maybe he thinks he's the only one being wrongly accused? Or maybe he considers himself "facing consequences" too?

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#456

Post by 6nf »

notRobot wrote: post #10

Stuff like this is what gives CoCs a bad rep, although when implemented well, they can be hugely beneficial to communities.

> when implemented well, they can be hugely beneficial to communities.

Please supply an example or two if you don't mind?

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#457

Post by dragonwriter »

donw wrote: post #323
taneq wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The core problem with the self-esteem movement is that they try to promote high self-esteem disconnected from any true achievement or worth . High self-esteem certainly correlates with healthy, successful people (of course healthy successful people have good self esteem!) but trying to artificially inflate peoples' self esteem to create health and success is driving the causation backwards. Self esteem devoid of any…

> Self esteem devoid of any underlying achievement is hollow. In the end you're basically manufacturing narcissists, with a fragile falsely inflated self image covering a chasm of insecurity. Precisely. At the same time, I think that social connections divorced from physical reality -- as is on the Internet -- compound this to the nth degree. I can pretend to be an amazing dancer or boxer or chef on Facebook, but it'…

> The first rule of social dancing is that you want to welcome new dancers.

The second rule (which, really, overlaps a lot with the first rule) of social dancing is that you don’t, ever, offer unsolicited coaching in the context of social dance. And part of that is because almost no one is in the mental place in that context to take it well.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#458

Post by RonanTheGrey »

dannyw wrote: post #377
ALittleLight wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people know what is or isn't acceptable through common sense. A racist or sexual assaulter isn't going to think "Wait, does this violate the code of conduct?" Every conference doesn't need to go to the trouble of working out some flawless unambiguous list of rules and every attendee doesn't need to read them. If someone is causing a problem eject, ban, or call the police. No CoC needed.

And three sentences of "We don't tolerate abuse, discrimination, or harassment of any speaker or participant at XYZCon. If you have a problem, contact a staff member. If you cause a problem, you may be asked to leave, be banned from future events, and/or the police may be called.

Exactly. In generations past this was called "respecting boundaries" and was something we do as a social activity -- we literally teach others how we are willing to be treated (or more generally, we teach others what behavior will be accepted in that social group).

Despite the increasing anonymity of the world (in that we don't physically live and interact in the same physical space), I think conferences are still small enough social groups that such approaches do work. I've been to some where despite the presence of thousands of people, noteworthy news takes less than a few minutes to travel throughout the conference.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#459

Post by iforgotpassword »

> I repeatedly told their committee that my emotional resilience was low at the moment due to medical issues, which they laughed about and ignored, as I tried (unsuccessfully) to hold back tears.

We have to take his word on this, but if true this sadly confirms my stereotype of these CoC SJWs. They are like that horrible corrupted cop standing above the law, treating those people breaking their laws worse than what they are accused of.

Until now this has mostly been a US thing, but it's slowly making its way to Europe too, unfortunately.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#460

Post by roenxi »

csnover wrote: post #380
newscracker wrote: post #184

After reading the entire post, I feel really bad for him, and I hope he gets the time off and the support necessary to recover from this incident. I also feel quite angry with how he has been treated. So please let me vent it out here as politely as I’m able to. I can imagine something like this or worse happening on social media groups, but an ostentatious “committee” that listens only to one side and never gives th…

> And the chuckling in the call when someone has already said they’re not in a proper emotional state is just bullying. I can’t speak to who this person was or why they did this, but I did just want to mention that there is at least one good faith explanation that isn’t straight up bullying. When I am in uncomfortable situations, I have a nervous chuckle. If I were in this call, giving this feedback to this person, I…

Happens in person too. I've been long cured of my habit of using a default smiling expression when I'm thinking about something tricky. There were some unpleasant experiences before someone passed on to me that I was 'smirking [at their problems]'.
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