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To protect democracy, journalists need to learn to think like hackers and spies

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Re: To protect democracy, journalists need to learn to think like hackers and spies

#21

Post by tathougies »

postpawl wrote: post #5
dropit_sphere wrote: post #3

It feels insanely presumptuous to hear this stuff. Democracy? Since when are we a democracy? Oh, because it's a popular term used in media and vernacular? So are Fruit Loops, who cares? Let me try an alternate framing: democracy is a brand, a feel-good term for political rhetoric. This is what democracy looks like: https://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/msnbc/Components/ArtAndPhoto-... What is actually (though unpopularly) v…

How is “the Bill of Rights, high trust, and rule of law” doing any lifting? You have to vote for people to implement those things. Ideally you’d have a well educated populace and a functional media to make sure the best people get elected though... Is there a better system for making politicians accountable to citizens?

> You have to vote for people to implement those things.

Not really. We didn't vote for Amy Coney Barrett, or anyone else on the supreme court, but ultimately, they -- and the myriad other judges -- are the ones who protect the populace, via rule of law, from a government of any political party interfering in the fundamental rights -- as outlined in the Constitution -- over which the government has no authority to legislate over.

EDIT: That is to say, I am not someone who feels super-well-represented by any political party or candidate. Despite the fact that I prefer Trump over Biden, I don't like everything about the man, by any means. But honestly, whether he wins or not, I don't really care, because I trust our Constitution via the judiciary (and legislation, when necessary) to guarantee to me what I care most about... the freedom to practice my religion and to speak what I think.

Re: To protect democracy, journalists need to learn to think like hackers and spies

#22

Post by redis_mlc »

the_only_law wrote: post #8
redis_mlc wrote: post #6

[flagged]

Do you know anything about marxism or are you just repeating words you heard someone say on the internet. Id be interested to hear you explain how the Democratic party, who's politicians range from center right neoliberals to vaguely leftist progressives as a Marxist organization.

[flagged]

Re: To protect democracy, journalists need to learn to think like hackers and spies

#23

Post by tathougies »

the_only_law wrote: post #13
hintymad wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tucker Carlson just broke the record for most-watched month of any cable news show ever. If that offends you as a journalist, it's probably time for some introspection. I admire your optimism, but there won't be introspection. They will and already have labeled Carlson far-right, bigot, racist, sexist, liar, and you name it. His show broke the record because more than half of American population are basket of deplo…

Tucker Carlson thinks marijuana legalization is a massive conspiracy to pacify the youth and make them more compliant. I dont particularly give a damn about the mainstream media, but I'm not going to pretend Carlson is a paragon of intelligent political analysis either.

Most people don't agree fully with any person they respect politically. That doesn't mean you toss the baby out with the bathwater. Tucker Carlson's views on Marijuana may seem odd on Hacker News, but (1) they're fairly typical and mainstream and (2) they really don't matter when Tucker is reporting on things like the Joe Biden allegations.

Re: To protect democracy, journalists need to learn to think like hackers and spies

#25

Post by tathougies »

whatever1 wrote: post #9
redis_mlc wrote: post #6

[flagged]

Trump is the only leader of a proper democracy of our days that denied to commit to a safe transition of power, or even to recognize the legitimacy of the upcoming election process. Tyrants can be elected as well.

That's not true. The democratic party has not committed to a safe transition of power. Clinton has told Biden to not concede, even if he loses. The Atlantic has pieces saying that the Democrats should not concede: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/democrats-.... Biden, as far as I know, has not said anything specific on the matter.

Re: To protect democracy, journalists need to learn to think like hackers and spies

#26

Post by tehjoker »

dropit_sphere wrote: post #3

It feels insanely presumptuous to hear this stuff. Democracy? Since when are we a democracy? Oh, because it's a popular term used in media and vernacular? So are Fruit Loops, who cares? Let me try an alternate framing: democracy is a brand, a feel-good term for political rhetoric. This is what democracy looks like: https://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/msnbc/Components/ArtAndPhoto-... What is actually (though unpopularly) v…

Those things you mentioned are pieces of paper and phantasms. Only an engaged populace can hold elites in check. Why would they do anything except what benefits them otherwise?

Re: To protect democracy, journalists need to learn to think like hackers and spies

#27

Post by Dog1234 »

hintymad wrote: post #11

Journalists need to learn the basic ethics. Take sides when you analyze, don't take sides when you seek facts. Edit to write sharper articles, don't edit to take people's words out of context. Be creative to find truth, don't be creative to fit everything into your own narrative, and certainly don't fabricate history to win Pulitzer.

koi bat ni

Re: To protect democracy, journalists need to learn to think like hackers and spies

#28

Post by triceratops »

tathougies wrote: post #25
whatever1 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is the only leader of a proper democracy of our days that denied to commit to a safe transition of power, or even to recognize the legitimacy of the upcoming election process. Tyrants can be elected as well.

That's not true. The democratic party has not committed to a safe transition of power. Clinton has told Biden to not concede, even if he loses. The Atlantic has pieces saying that the Democrats should not concede: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/democrats-... . Biden, as far as I know, has not said anything specific on the matter.

> The Atlantic has pieces saying that the Democrats should not concede

You should really read the article. Because a couple of words in the headline are playing into your confirmation bias and misleading you.

FTA: "I find myself truly worried about only one scenario: that Trump will win reelection and Democrats and others on the left will be unwilling, even unable, to accept the result."

Not really the same thing as "The Atlantic told Democrats not to concede".

> Clinton has told Biden to not concede, even if he loses

Citation needed. Did she say not to concede ever at all, or not to concede if on election night things look to not be going his way? With the number of mail-in ballots, the latter is entirely reasonable.

Re: To protect democracy, journalists need to learn to think like hackers and spies

#29

Post by hilbert42 »

hintymad wrote: post #11

Journalists need to learn the basic ethics. Take sides when you analyze, don't take sides when you seek facts. Edit to write sharper articles, don't edit to take people's words out of context. Be creative to find truth, don't be creative to fit everything into your own narrative, and certainly don't fabricate history to win Pulitzer.

Not only is learning ethics essential for them but also we have to pay journalists in ways other than having them work for media organizations whose income is based on ratings. Chasing ratings has ruined many news organizations over the past 50 or so years.

Given the structure of reporting today, I don't see how that can be achieved in any easy way.

Re: To protect democracy, journalists need to learn to think like hackers and spies

#30

Post by NalNezumi »

I'm too young to recall the past in rose tinted glasses, but recently I've started to be more skeptical by day if "objective journalism" or even "journalism", as the third check of balance of power that is usually taught in schools, was ever a thing.

On another HN post about fast.ai CoC debacle someone pointed out that media before the 20th century was not much more different than twitter today; a lot of rumours, unchecked facts, misinformation, you name it.

More and more it seems like the high paragon of journalism that most journalists claims as an excuse is just that; an idealized excuse. It reminds me of old religious zealots shoving some holy texts in front of you to show how "good" they are, but if you dare peek behind their back, you'd see a mountain of bodies. Point that out and you can see truly how remarkably fast an human brain can compute hundreds of excuses.

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