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If Not SPAs, What?

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Re: If Not SPAs, What?

#101

Post by bgdkbtv »

yagodragon wrote: post #96
bgdkbtv wrote: post #78

I'm building an app with a TALL stack now (Tailwind, Alpine.js, Laravel, and Livewire) and I am incredibly productive. Very little build step required (to compile Tailwind to reduce the size based on which classes are used in .blade.php files). CRUD, Image uploads etc are so easily done I am such a fan. I was skeptical at first, but now I love this way of building web apps. No idea how well it scales, but for a simpl…

Seriously, after all these years of JavaScript,SPA,react,redux craze, we're back at PHP, css and minimal js all over again. None of those new js frameworks allow you to build custom web apps faster than Laravel or Rails. I'm really curious about what kind of side projects all these people are building with e.g. next.js alone. Is there any kind of web app that doesn't need authentication, authorization and database ac…

I write full SPAs at work, professionally. We use React, Apollo, GraphQL, Webpack etc. the TALL stack is such a breath of fresh air. I can't even begin to explain my joy. Just joy.

I now dread the time I have to write those infinite lines of JS, conflicting dependencies, slow build times, React hook state management etc.

When I speak with my colleagues about tech, they all seem to love the entangled mess of JS dev and willing to jump on any new framework that gets released. I always push for good old reliable SSR. Often get called the weird one for being young, yet favoring old school tech, though.

I guess I prefer a better developer experience and shorter time to production/market, rather than spending days trying to setup a project and figure out weird quirks and issues with such a complicated mess of a "serverless, modern day web application".

Re: If Not SPAs, What?

#102

Post by ablekh »

jolux wrote: post #45

One entry in this space that doesn't get a lot of attention is ASP.NET Blazor [1]. Blazor gives you the option of writing views in C# that will actually compile to WebAssembly and run in the browser, or run on the server and send DOM updates over a SignalR connection, a lot like LiveView. [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/aspnet/core/blazor/

Blazor is certainly a very interesting and promising piece of technology. However, Blazor Server hosting mode is prone to latency issues and requires always-on connection to run an applications (so, no offline mode). On the other hand, the alternative Blazor WebAssembly mode requires clients to download a sizeable mix of .NET runtime and other system DLLs on the first use of the application (even a lightweight demo application with almost zero app-specific resources requires a download of 6+ MB of data in DEBUG mode and 2+ MB in RELEASE mode). Of course, relevant Microsoft teams work hard on further minimizing the size of the system bundle, but there are obvious limits to efforts in this regard.

Re: If Not SPAs, What?

#103

Post by WillPostForFood »

basch wrote: post #10
xiaomai wrote: post #8

I think Phoenix Live View is maybe the most compelling story around this ( https://github.com/phoenixframework/phoenix_live_view ). I'm moving a side-project from React/SPA to Phoenix live view and it's kind of amazing to get the dev ergonomics of a server-rendered page with the UX benefits of a SPA. This course is a pretty great intro: https://pragmaticstudio.com/phoenix-liveview

as a user, this is the kind of experience I want on the web. any spa like page should always degrade back to web standards. and it should be lightening fast. and not spin my cpu fan or warm my desk.

Yes, and please no more load screens for a page of text a few photos, (looking at you Blogger), just send the text and links to the photos.

Re: If Not SPAs, What?

#104

Post by bgdkbtv »

yagodragon wrote: post #96
bgdkbtv wrote: post #78

I'm building an app with a TALL stack now (Tailwind, Alpine.js, Laravel, and Livewire) and I am incredibly productive. Very little build step required (to compile Tailwind to reduce the size based on which classes are used in .blade.php files). CRUD, Image uploads etc are so easily done I am such a fan. I was skeptical at first, but now I love this way of building web apps. No idea how well it scales, but for a simpl…

Seriously, after all these years of JavaScript,SPA,react,redux craze, we're back at PHP, css and minimal js all over again. None of those new js frameworks allow you to build custom web apps faster than Laravel or Rails. I'm really curious about what kind of side projects all these people are building with e.g. next.js alone. Is there any kind of web app that doesn't need authentication, authorization and database ac…

Regarding auth and db, the ones I've spoken with that prefer JS way of doing things like to combine a bunch of existing offerings into one, eg Auth0 for Auth, Prisma for DB and so on. The more potential points of failure, the more attractive it seems to them.

When saying that Laravel/RoR gives you all that by running one simple command, I get blank stares. Hard to believe, I know.

Re: If Not SPAs, What?

#105

Post by Scarbutt »

jolux wrote: post #45

One entry in this space that doesn't get a lot of attention is ASP.NET Blazor [1]. Blazor gives you the option of writing views in C# that will actually compile to WebAssembly and run in the browser, or run on the server and send DOM updates over a SignalR connection, a lot like LiveView. [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/aspnet/core/blazor/

ASP.NET core is still all the same over-engineered enterprise baggage you see in the Java world.

Re: If Not SPAs, What?

#106

Post by 1337shadow »

I'm replacing my StimulusJS with Web Components (and my webpack with snowpack).

Turbolinks you can have with an SPA codebase that will just request/load on clicks, and post/load on forms, not a big deal either.

Re: If Not SPAs, What?

#107

Post by jacobr »

dfabulich wrote: post #21

IMO, TurboLinks + service workers are the way to go. Not many people know this, but a service worker (previously called "local server") allows you to run a little web server in the user's browser that intercepts requests to your own web site. (There's no open IP port.) The service-worker web server can proxy requests to the remote server, and even build/store entire pages on the client side, enabling offline support.…

Is ESI in Service Workers anything you’ve tried? A bit mind blown, never thought of that. Been putting of SW due to all horror stories of people bricking their sites basically

Re: If Not SPAs, What?

#108

Post by skoskie »

dfabulich wrote: post #21

IMO, TurboLinks + service workers are the way to go. Not many people know this, but a service worker (previously called "local server") allows you to run a little web server in the user's browser that intercepts requests to your own web site. (There's no open IP port.) The service-worker web server can proxy requests to the remote server, and even build/store entire pages on the client side, enabling offline support.…

Any good tutorials you’d recommend?

Re: If Not SPAs, What?

#109

Post by Scarbutt »

bgdkbtv wrote: post #104
yagodragon wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, after all these years of JavaScript,SPA,react,redux craze, we're back at PHP, css and minimal js all over again. None of those new js frameworks allow you to build custom web apps faster than Laravel or Rails. I'm really curious about what kind of side projects all these people are building with e.g. next.js alone. Is there any kind of web app that doesn't need authentication, authorization and database ac…

Regarding auth and db, the ones I've spoken with that prefer JS way of doing things like to combine a bunch of existing offerings into one, eg Auth0 for Auth, Prisma for DB and so on. The more potential points of failure, the more attractive it seems to them. When saying that Laravel/RoR gives you all that by running one simple command , I get blank stares. Hard to believe, I know.

Rails doesn't give you auth* though.

Re: If Not SPAs, What?

#110

Post by raihansaputra »

ForHackernews wrote: post #20
ckorhonen wrote: post #18

I used Turbolinks for the first time on a new Rails app about 2 years ago and was floored by the impact - it felt like a SPA in terms of no page loads and overall speed. I'm convinced that this is the solution for the majority of use-cases, combined with selective usage of either React components or something like Stimulus where you need more sophisticated UI components.

Is there an equivalent of Turbolinks for something like Django? Or even for MVC PHP apps?

As mentioned, you can use Turbolinks with django. There's also Intercooler/htmx, and Unpoly.
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