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Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

reuters.com

211–220 of 272 posts

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#211
post #60
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has always been true that any computer connected to the internet could be accessed by an unauthorized party, even before the leaks. Disconnect from the internet and nobody is getting in, including the NSA.

> Disconnect from the internet and nobody is getting in, including the NSA. Wait until they put 5g chips in every single product to make them "smart". Few people talk about that but I believe it's the main use case for 5g. Everything will be connected and you'll have no way to opt out > 4G can support about 4,000 devices per square kilometre, whereas 5G will support around one million

Who pays for the connection?

I assume for the radio to stay on, it's either subsidized by the parent company (Amazon pays for Alexa's 5G) or I'm paying for a subscription (Xbox subscription pays for 5G on some future mobile XBox)

Maybe you could get the cost down to $1 / month. If you invest $400 in the market it should pay out about that much, so you could make it a one-time payment of $400 for a 5G chip.

Consumer network connections, of any kind I'm aware of, don't go down to $1 per month. Maybe with a big volume order and a low bandwidth cap the cell companies would do it, or maybe 5G itself is just cheaper, but where does that monthly cost come from?

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or rather they're not getting in _or_ out. they might already be in. as long as both in _and_ out are disconnected, you're set.

A 2g or 3g module is If the NSA has enough of an interest to be intercepting your packages, they're not going to shy away at adding in a transmitter or two of their own preference.

And yet I have to buy a new phone because 3G is getting shut down.

I guess if I was the NSA I'd bring my own Stingray, but then you have to amortize in the cost of the van.

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People now view going on the Internet as akin to going outside. Yes, other people can see you, and yes, you have limited expectations of privacy. No, it's not problematic that you have police keeping an eye on things. If you have a problem with that, and you never go outside without your "disguise" aka VPN, you are operating outside of social norms (and it's probably not helping anyway). This is not a valid judgement…

I hear this "the internet is like outside, don't expect privacy" argument a lot from americans, who i think are taught some 18th century definition of privacy by their media, as in "in your private rooms" and not a 21st century definition as in "about your private data". If you go to the city there are no agents of third party marketing agencies keeping notes of your movement and what items you look at in the stores…

A couple decades back when internet was a bit younger, there was a quite popular metaphor of the Global Village, shrinking the world and connecting people. However, that focused only on the positive aspects, but as time has gone on, I think that this has materialized in quite a literal way.

Currently most of us are used to the pseudo-anonymity of big cities, where people technically can know a lot stuff about us (because it happens in 'public' space, as you describe) but they overwhelmingly don't, because the vast majority of them are strangers who don't care. The new digital environment, on the other hand, is quite a lot like a small village.

The grocer can make effective suggestions for your food because they remember every purchase you ever made, they will know your consumption habits better than Amazon or anyone else in the modern world. They will know if you're expecting guests tonight just because of your purchases (and might gossip about that), and in that case they'll point you towards their cousin who's selling wine across the street. They will know if you're eating something that their other cousin, the local doctor, has said that you should avoid, and might refuse to sell you that.

The local lender (whether a banker or just a wealthy farmer who's a loan shark) does not need to 'profile' you - they know your dealings and your character, they'll know even if you've been stingy in giving back borrowed things as a teenager. If you buy condoms, the pharmacist will likely know with whom you're planning to use them. The contents of your bookshelf, as in your example? The village knows about that, people have been to your house, if there's anything unusual, word will get around - and if people have not been to your house, you've kept your privacy and the village does not know you, then you'll be treated as an untrustworthy weirdo with maximum prejudice; because keeping private is just not How Things Are Done Around Here. If your political opinions or religious views or sexual preferences don't fit what the village expects, good luck mentioning about it - their condemnation will be much more fierce than any Twitter mob.

So in that aspect, it's not something new, the level of privacy is slowly becoming as low as it was historically when we lived in much smaller communities. We have had some centuries of urban pseudo-anonymity, but it's fading now. It has been just a temporary reprieve, when you could move from a literal village to a big city, get lost in the crowd and be free and anonymous. It was difficult to do in ancient times, and it might be difficult to do again in the future.

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The disabled aside, no, I do not believe people who are withdrawing more from their society than they are depositing should be given a say in the governance of that society.

you say 'disabled aside' but what about the myriad of other reasons? Mental health, unemployment, pregnancy that year, international travel but still a citizen, w/e. As soon as you start pointing to reasons that a government can/ can't take away your power to vote you are screwed as a populace. Not that i have much faith in the voting system anyways cause' who knows how they count the votes anyways. It seems the incr…

>Mental health

If you're mentally unfit to contribute to society then I believe you to be unfit to weigh in on our governance.

>unemployment

I previously mentioned within x amount of years (where x is deemed reasonable) to account for short stints of unemployment. I do not want the long term unemployed weighing in on our governance.

>pregnancy that year

Already covered

>international travel but still a citizen

If you're not present and contributing to a society, in my view, you should absolutely not have a say in the governance of that society. In fact, I find the idea abhorrent.

>As soon as you start pointing to reasons that a government can/ can't take away your power to vote you are screwed as a populace.

Not really. Our species has survived and thrived for tens of thousands of years before widespread "voting" became available. The free-for-all in terms of access to voting is very modern, and very Western.

The modern West is, coincidentally enough, now in a freefall downward spiral from which it likely won't recover. We've went from high trust, well functioning societies where one person could go out to work in a blue collar job and support a family, to a very low trust society now hanging on to false premises like a house of cards, where even two people working full time can struggle to put food on the table.

Screwed as a populace? We're already frogs in the pot and that is with this fancy "everyone gets a say" notion in place.

>Not that i have much faith in the voting system anyways cause' who knows how they count the votes anyways.

My lack of faith in the voting system is that some entity, barely through puberty, highly influence-able, no skin in the game and therefore nothing to lose, can be told by some troglodyte celebrity to go vote for their (the celebrity's) candidate of choice and that vote is exactly equal to that of someone who contributes to society and invests their time in keeping on top of the issues that society faces.

Sorry, but when it comes to governing a society in the name of preserving and advancing its wellbeing, the above is nothing more than a joke and a cruel one at that.

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#215
If, hypothetically, you worked for one of these vendors, then, hypothetically, you might find that while waiting for a shipment of new product test gear to your lab, a shipment from California to Maryland may get waylayed - by U.S. Customs, in Texas. Two weeks later you finally get your gear. And you don't talk about it outside your immediate team. Such is life in a big company.

Hypothetically.

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#216
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly that's a horrifying prospect - if I get seriously injured and have to go on permanent disability, I'd rather not be (further?) disenfranchised. This is the same as saying "I don't believe disabled/poor people should be able to vote"

The disabled aside, no, I do not believe people who are withdrawing more from their society than they are depositing should be given a say in the governance of that society.

Doesn’t this create an incentive for those who make enough to vote to enact more laws to make it harder for those who can’t?

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#217
Meanwhile government can read any email without a warrant that is six months old for the past THREE DECADES

Why does the press never mention this?

It's in part why there was an email server in the basement, most people should have theirs there but gmail mostly won that battle due to spam management.

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#218
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar to my experience of surveying vacuum cleaners on Amazon, then going to get lunch at Whole Foods where a clerk appeared suddenly at the checkout I was at to vacuum up a non-existent mess, with one of the models Amazon had offered up. The ratio of profit to sales cost on a high-end vacuum might be similar to a Lotus Elise. Or maybe it's just confirmation bias.

If this phenomenon isn't already a PKD short then it could be a SCP entry.

There's only about 5,000 "real" people on the planet. The rest are unconscious echoes. Thus the weird pressure and "Truman show" feeling those people face.

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#219
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sympathize with the frustration, but the tests themselves will just be another attack vector for voter suppression (history proves this). Probably better off spending resources on improving education and political awareness. I personally think that if we aren’t going to let someone vote then we shouldn’t ask them to pay tax either.

>I personally think that if we aren’t going to let someone vote then we shouldn’t ask them to pay tax either. Agreed. Conversely I believe that people who haven't paid tax in a reasonable amount of years, through either not generating it in the first place, avoision or being a net beneficiary of state aid shouldn't be offered a vote.

So the poor shouldn't be able to vote?

Let's come out and say it: this is a policy designed to consolidate power in the hands of the rich.

Universal suffrage is important.

Re: Spy agency ducks questions about 'back doors' in tech products

#220
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sympathize with the frustration, but the tests themselves will just be another attack vector for voter suppression (history proves this). Probably better off spending resources on improving education and political awareness. I personally think that if we aren’t going to let someone vote then we shouldn’t ask them to pay tax either.

>I personally think that if we aren’t going to let someone vote then we shouldn’t ask them to pay tax either. Agreed. Conversely I believe that people who haven't paid tax in a reasonable amount of years, through either not generating it in the first place, avoision or being a net beneficiary of state aid shouldn't be offered a vote.

Governmental legitimacy comes from much more than just property and taxation. The government is entrusted with the monopoly on violence, and thus anyone on whom this violence is expected to be applied deserves a vote. There are other reasons too, but this is an important one.
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