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Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

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Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#141

Post by scollet »

singhrac wrote: post #27

I also, independently, started writing an app in Flutter for fun (no experience in mobile/desktop GUI work, several years since I've worked in front-end web). I can give a list of pros/cons that probably overlaps what you've heard: Pros: - The toolkit feels fairly mature and not too hard to parse. I think there's a lot of "this class works with defaults and breaks otherwise" feeling, though the core components are ro…

Adding to the list, still not clear on global state management best practices.

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#142

Post by emersion »

Const-me wrote: post #130
emersion wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Embedded doesn’t need wayland nor X.org It depends. In this particular case, the demo seems to contain a launcher which allows to start multiple apps and switch between them. A window manager sounds preferable in this case. Also, Flutter handles all of the Wayland/X11 implementation details. In this case it's less work to just use the already-existing backend.

> the demo seems to contain a launcher which allows to start multiple apps and switch between them. If the count of apps is small, and all of them are written by you, it's not terribly complicated to pass exclusive access to display across processes. Only becomes too complicated if you want many apps updating their windows at the same time, or support third-party apps. > it's less work to just use the already-existin…

> it's not terribly complicated to pass exclusive access to display across processes.

You're just starting to re-invent the Wayland protocol. You need to pass input too… and more of Wayland re-invented.

>desktop environments are huge

Weston or Cage doesn't really qualify as huge.

Also, I think you underestimate the work to write a program using KMS and libinput. It's pretty easy to write a toy app, but writing a solid framework is something else.

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#143

Post by Hixie »

preommr wrote: post #30
rubicon33 wrote: post #15

Somewhat of an aside, since this article is about Flutter on embedded systems where React Native isn't even a consideration but... I've used both Flutter and React Native. Hands down, Flutter is the more enjoyable experience. Everything from the language, to the toolkit, to the IDE, to the final product, is just BETTER. React Native is a bloated, hacky, slow, garbage pile by comparison.

I can't figure out flutter. I see so many rave reviews. But I personally tried it and strongly disliked it. The toolkit and Android Studio run horribly slow - like really slow. And the output is basically this generation's flash. Some of the samples I tried on their gallery are mediocre. Very slight, but noticeable sluggishness. Some are just terrible; the 2d transformations moves at like 7fps. Plus there are so many…

Please don't hesitate to file bugs on any performance issues you see. We care very much about getting excellent performance. There are some specific hardware configurations that we are aware don't behave as well as we'd like (though nothing as bad as you're describing), but that's usually limited to pretty low-end phones where honestly even the OEM software doesn't perform that well...

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#144

Post by layoutIfNeeded »

fmakunbound wrote: post #136
layoutIfNeeded wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These can run basic GC'd apps just fine LOL, this explains why every embedded GUI I encounter in these "smart" devices is awfully sluggish and a pain to use, delivering 5fps at most. Thx for the clarification!

Don’t know why you’re getting voted down... One only has to pick the same app, implemented natively on comparable iPhone and Android hardware to see that the underlying language runtime, that’s NOT garbage collected, is the one with the buttery-smooth UI. With JS “native” or web whatever, it’s even more pronounced on the SAME hardware.

Yep. Last week I had the joy of checking the infotainment system of my friend’s new car, for which Renault thought it was a good idea to use this Android fork or whatever, with a touchscreen interface of course. It was comically bad! The latency, the framerate, the whole user experience was utter crap. If they had literally glued a 2G iPhone from 2007 to the dashboard it would have been better than this embedded Android GUI. And I refuse to believe that the hardware in a 2020 executive car is less performant than a phone from 13 years ago, so the culprit has to be the software...

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#145

Post by Hixie »

blub wrote: post #140
ZeroCool2u wrote: post #3

Great presentation. Also, really not surprising at all. Anyone that has tried getting a sample Flutter app running on a desktop will quickly find that it's shockingly easy and on almost all platforms will "just work" despite being in Alpha. The development experience in Flutter is great too. Anything that can help with that when developing for embedded systems is likely very tempting. I am curious why they went with…

It is both surprising and unsurprising... Unsurprising because it's not the first time Sony bet on an unusual language ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1938652 ) and people on HN were similarly excited. Days later the initiative was put on hold and the domain doesn't even resolve today. I think it's safe to say that their initiative did not end up as a huge success. Surprising because according to their own pre…

Flutter's Wayland support is used by Google for a consumer product with millions of users. (source: I work for Google.)

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#146

Post by cercatrova »

scollet wrote: post #141
singhrac wrote: post #27

I also, independently, started writing an app in Flutter for fun (no experience in mobile/desktop GUI work, several years since I've worked in front-end web). I can give a list of pros/cons that probably overlaps what you've heard: Pros: - The toolkit feels fairly mature and not too hard to parse. I think there's a lot of "this class works with defaults and breaks otherwise" feeling, though the core components are ro…

Adding to the list, still not clear on global state management best practices.

Best practices currently are to use Provider, or the new Riverpod (still in beta for now) once it's better. Made by the same person, Remi Rousselet.

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#147

Post by cercatrova »

Hixie wrote: post #145
blub wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is both surprising and unsurprising... Unsurprising because it's not the first time Sony bet on an unusual language ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1938652 ) and people on HN were similarly excited. Days later the initiative was put on hold and the domain doesn't even resolve today. I think it's safe to say that their initiative did not end up as a huge success. Surprising because according to their own pre…

Flutter's Wayland support is used by Google for a consumer product with millions of users. (source: I work for Google.)

Which product is that? I didn't realize Flutter had a Linux dominant product already.

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#148

Post by caditinpiscinam »

offtop5 wrote: post #5

Dart is easily my favorite programing language. It's the best parts of C# plus real dynamics. The Flutter ecosystem is already above and ahead of React Native , a big part of it is it doesn't have the baggage of npm, Babel and JavaScript. For a friend's side project I've been using Flutter Web and I couldn't be happier with it

Mine too. It does gradual typing better than any other language I've tried.

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#149

Post by sebe »

api wrote: post #129

Does Flutter support accessibility extensions on popular platforms? This question is usually the end of my evaluation of most UI toolkits for serious professional work.

"Flutter is committed to supporting developers in making their apps more accessible, and includes first-class framework support for accessibility in addition to that provided by the underlying operating system, including:

Large fonts

Render text widgets with user-specified font sizes

Screen readers

Communicate spoken feedback about UI contents

Sufficient contrast

Render widgets with colors that have sufficient contrast"

via

https://flutter.dev/docs/development/accessibility-and-local...

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#150

Post by mekkkkkk »

cercatrova wrote: post #147
Hixie wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flutter's Wayland support is used by Google for a consumer product with millions of users. (source: I work for Google.)

Which product is that? I didn't realize Flutter had a Linux dominant product already.

Not the OP, but I have heard that the google assistants with screens run Flutter.
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