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Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

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Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#81

Post by blinkingled »

izacus wrote: post #76
blinkingled wrote: post #57

So for some reason they can't just use Android as the base OS /Display Manager and use Flutter for Android so now they have to use X11 or Wayland? They may have their reasons but I skimmed over the PDF and it doesn't address why.

Bringing up Android on a platform is significantly harder than booting up a thin Linux distribution. Android is also a rather fat cow. The Android version of this would be "Android Things" which would be perfect for this use-case (and some Googles own hardware is running Flutter on Android Things), but that platform has been completely discontinued. So booting up a thin Linux until you get a Flutter canvas just makes…

I think for extremely limited capability embedded devices it makes sense to have Linux kernel + Wayland - but anything modernly new Android will do fine. Honda uses it in their in-dash entertainment systems for example.

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#82

Post by thomasfortes »

_v7gu wrote: post #50
okareaman wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been following Dart since it's first release in 2012. I was able to be productive with right away back then. The JavaScript community freaked out because some Google exec in an email said Dart was a JavaScript killer. That did a lot of damage to it's acceptance. Dart was written with 2 things in mind afaik: 1) Replace Java based Google Web Kit used to write JavaScript (GMail circa mid 2000's) and 2) to serve as…

If Flutter had a Bolero/F# analogue, that would be a very quick adoption reason for me

ReveryUI seems like a nice project that works similarly to flutter, unfortunately they aren't sponsored by a giant company, but I would love to use reasonml/ocaml instead of dart (which is in no way a bad language, I just prefer to code in functional languages) to write apps.

https://www.outrunlabs.com/revery/

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#83

Post by Const-me »

Embedded doesn’t need wayland nor X.org. These two things implement desktop managers. Why would you run a desktop manager on a computer that runs one program only?

For embedded, drm/kms is IMO better level of abstraction to base on. It only takes couple pages of code to get yourself a full-screen DRM-backed EGL context. I did it a few times for various Linuxes using Broadcom and Mali GPUs.

I’ve evaluated Flutter couple years back, chose not to. I picked NanoVG (later on I’ve patched it a bit improving fonts https://github.com/Const-me/nanovg ), compiled a shared library, consumed from .NET Core, and implemented a GUI in C#, with animated transitions and such. Both me and my client were happy with the outcome.

Here’s why I was reluctant to choose Flutter.

1. New programming language with Flutter being the only use case. The language looks nice by itself. However, this means no library ecosystem, and non-trivial chances to waste lots of time working around bugs in language, compiler and runtime.

2. I don’t like Skia underneath, too much legacy and overall CPU-centric design. Marketing materials tells how they using GL and Vulkan for performance. Source code tells opposite story, they’re doing a lot of graphics on CPU. Unless the stuff is already implemented by some knowledgeable people outside ad. tech, e.g. MS Direct2D or nVidia’s NV_path_rendering. To be fair, Skia appears to be able to consume either of them, but none was available for my Linux target.

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#85

Post by filoleg »

byeager wrote: post #58
skratlo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will likely not continue

Do you mean Google's support will likely not continue or that the project will not continue if Google pulls its support.

The way I read it, it looks like OP is saying that in case Google pulls out, then it will likely not continue.

And I tend to agree with this. I can foresee an initial counter-push for the first year or so after google pulls out, but then the project will die its own death.

However, with Flutter specifically, I have a strong feeling that Google won't pull out. Esp given how Dart was kind of a big flop for years after the initial release, and Google still kept it around until Flutter came into existence, and then made a hard push to continue with Dart. At the moment, Dart is the best and most popular it has ever been.

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#86

Post by acoard »

The_rationalist wrote: post #55
ironmagma wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flutter is just for people who need to get something basic done without too much trouble, I think. It's been over a decade of mobile UI iteration and we still don't have something that does everything for all OSes in a declarative way, so I think we are just doomed to writing a native app for each platform if you want performance, correctness in terms of UI, and productivity.

And on the other side there is Ionic which is has no real performance issues (contrary to flutter), has the biggest ecosystem (the web) and is elegant, expressive, simple -> The thousands of powerful web APIs, Angular and typescript

Ionic just wraps the web browser on mobile devices. So you still have to target two browsers, Safari and Chrome.

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#88

Post by rajeevk »

zachruss92 wrote: post #2

I think as Flutter matures it will change the game for native development. I'm building an app now for a well known startup and are converting their native codebases to Flutter. What is interesting is that I was able to compile the app to web with no extra work and now use that as an easy way to demo things to my client. From a cross-platform perspective that changes the game for me along with being able to build des…

I see this on dark.dev for web

"Warning: While in development, web support is available in the beta channel"

What is your experience? Is it OK to use this is in production app. Right now I need a web and desktop app and curious to know if Flutter can be used. But I see the Flutter web is beta quality and Flutter desktop is alpha quality as of now

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#89

Post by jamil7 »

The_rationalist wrote: post #56
jamil7 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Took me a while to get on board with Flutter, only really started enjoying it after I gave it a few goes. Coming to Dart after Swift and Kotlin feels like a big downgrade but languages aren't that important, as you said the whole environment is so much more streamlined than Android dev. I'm using it for Android only however and keeping my existing iOS app in Swift.

Off topic but regarding language design, what are some pros about swift that Kotlin hasn't?

Ah my comment wasn’t that clear. What I meant was as nice as flutter is dart felt like a downgrade after working with kotlin and swift (both of which I like a lot)

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#90

Post by alexandr1us »

preommr wrote: post #30
rubicon33 wrote: post #15

Somewhat of an aside, since this article is about Flutter on embedded systems where React Native isn't even a consideration but... I've used both Flutter and React Native. Hands down, Flutter is the more enjoyable experience. Everything from the language, to the toolkit, to the IDE, to the final product, is just BETTER. React Native is a bloated, hacky, slow, garbage pile by comparison.

I can't figure out flutter. I see so many rave reviews. But I personally tried it and strongly disliked it. The toolkit and Android Studio run horribly slow - like really slow. And the output is basically this generation's flash. Some of the samples I tried on their gallery are mediocre. Very slight, but noticeable sluggishness. Some are just terrible; the 2d transformations moves at like 7fps. Plus there are so many…

100% my experience. Everything feels backwards. Dart is huge turn off, there are too many widgets, non native views, horrible native view support. Flutter devs brag about how fast their apps are but honestly I have yet to find Flutter app which isn't sluggish
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