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Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

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Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#41

Post by mmm_grayons »

Kranar wrote: post #33
varispeed wrote: post #25

What Microsoft is doing should be illegal. If you buy a product, you should be able to use it throughout your lifetime or until the product naturally cease to operate. In this case, Microsoft should release an open source tool to cross sign the drivers if they don't want to support it or add an update that disables checking for signatures. If a company can disable software features in the future, then you are no buyi…

Is it not possible to install unsigned drivers on Windows 7? You won't get support from Microsoft in doing so, but you'll be able to continue using Windows 7 and will have to find an alternative way of validating the drivers.

I don't know about windows 7, but on win10, one has to 1. generate one's own key 2. sign the driver 3. turn on test signing mode, which puts a watermark in the bottom-right of the desktop background, somewhat like "activate windows" watermark but only on background. Oh, and 1. and 2. are tedious, poorly-documented processes for which microsoft provides almost no support.

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#42

Post by tsimionescu »

fartcannon wrote: post #15

It's painful to repeatedly witness people voluntarily buy into ecosystems maintained by people with perverse incentives. You can't fault MS, making more money is their raison d'etre. If you care at all, even the smallest amount, explore the alternatives.

Are there more people releasing drivers for Linux 2.6 or 3.9 (the versions released ~when Win 7 and Win 8 launched respectively)? Or for OpenBSD 4.4?

I think the state of support for Linux and open source in general is much, much worse than for commercial software.

No one is maintaining >10 year old software. Especially not for free.

Do note that this is not a story about not being able to run Win 7 anymore - it's simply about having it more difficult to release and install new drivers on it.

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#43

Post by Kuinox »

baybal2 wrote: post #14
theandrewbailey wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 8.1 is under extended support until January 10, 2023.[0] Why can Microsoft still support that system up to that date, but not let anyone else? [0] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/faq/windows#what-...

Because they intentionally want to kill it, to force people into buying the new windows version.

The win10 update is still free.

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#44

Post by cpgxiii »

The title is a gross exaggeration of the policy change MS is making. Come 2021, what will go away is the ability to sign drivers for Windows 7 and 8 without passing WHQL/HLK compliance tests. That's it. You can still update compliant drivers, and you can still ship unsigned drivers if your users are willing to disable signing (not great, but there are plenty of shitty vendors who do this already).

Are there some number of important drivers that absolutely can't (rather than currently don't) pass WHQL/HLK tests? Sure, but I can't help but feel that the main "victims" of this will be shitty vendors with buggy drivers that have lagged in supporting newer Windows variants (and have thus kept their users stuck on older variants). Is OSR one of these shitty vendors? Maybe not, and they are a paragon of quality stuck in a rare corner case of WHQL/HLK compliance. But it does sound like they have spent the last year complaining about the policy change rather than working to meet WHQL/HLK compliance - I don't see any evidence in their post of working with MS to improve the WHQL/HLK tests.

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#45

Post by qppo »

fartcannon wrote: post #15

It's painful to repeatedly witness people voluntarily buy into ecosystems maintained by people with perverse incentives. You can't fault MS, making more money is their raison d'etre. If you care at all, even the smallest amount, explore the alternatives.

There is Windows and MacOS for users that want a computer that works. FOSS alternatives are for developers and power users that want a computer like someone wants a project car.

I say this as a happy Linux user at home. But I need to use Windows for work because of multiple programs that do not run on any other target. In school (this has changed a bit) I need to use Microsoft PowerPoint, Excel, and Word. At home I still have to dual boot Windows to play games with my friends.

There really isn't an alternative, even if you wanted to pay money for it.

If you want an example of this that I've been fighting for the last week, Steam doesn't launch after the first installation on my machine running Pop!_OS 20.04. There's a half dozen things I've tried to fix that, all the related issues are unresolved or partially resolved from comments on GitHub, and my current solution is to reboot and use Windows. Linux is not suitable for personal computing today.

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#46

Post by EvanAnderson »

Kuinox wrote: post #43
baybal2 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they intentionally want to kill it, to force people into buying the new windows version.

The win10 update is still free.

Windows Server 2012 R2 is impacted. Upgrades are not free. Upgrading the server necessitates updating Client Access Licenses (either purchased per-device or per-user) as well. Costs could be significant. If you've got a dependency on a driver that can't pass WHQL and you need an update, post July 2021, your only choice will be to dump Windows Server 2012 R2.

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#47

Post by StillBored »

cpgxiii wrote: post #44

The title is a gross exaggeration of the policy change MS is making. Come 2021, what will go away is the ability to sign drivers for Windows 7 and 8 without passing WHQL/HLK compliance tests. That's it. You can still update compliant drivers, and you can still ship unsigned drivers if your users are willing to disable signing (not great, but there are plenty of shitty vendors who do this already). Are there some numb…

How do you permanently disable signing on 64-bit win7? Last I checked it wasn't possible to do cleanly, you end up needing user interaction for every boot, or you get a nag border.

So, its a big deal.

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#48

Post by app4soft »

qppo wrote: post #45
fartcannon wrote: post #15

It's painful to repeatedly witness people voluntarily buy into ecosystems maintained by people with perverse incentives. You can't fault MS, making more money is their raison d'etre. If you care at all, even the smallest amount, explore the alternatives.

There is Windows and MacOS for users that want a computer that works. FOSS alternatives are for developers and power users that want a computer like someone wants a project car. I say this as a happy Linux user at home. But I need to use Windows for work because of multiple programs that do not run on any other target. In school (this has changed a bit) I need to use Microsoft PowerPoint, Excel, and Word. At home I s…

> But I need to use Windows for work because of multiple programs that do not run on any other target.

> At home I still have to dual boot Windows to play games with my friends.

In most cases you may execute such programs & games under Linux via WINE (+ Mono, PlayOnLinux, Winetricks; if needed).[0]

> In school (this has changed a bit) I need to use Microsoft PowerPoint, Excel, and Word.

Use LibreOffice Impress, Calc, and Writer instead.[1]

> There really isn't an alternative, even if you wanted to pay money for it.

Scroll up and read again.

[0] https://www.gamingonlinux.com/wiki/Wine

[1] https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2020/03/24/libreoff...

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#49

Post by mrguyorama »

m463 wrote: post #37
doikor wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft did (still?) offer a free upgrade path from Windows 7/8 to Windows 10 for years so I doubt this is really for "getting money from our customers" but more "we want to stop supporting these old platforms at some point"

Not only free, but forced!

My Windows 7 PC was never forcibly upgraded. I don't know what you are talking about

Re: Microsoft: No Driver Updates Allowed for Win7 and Win8

#50

Post by StillBored »

varispeed wrote: post #27
gitweb wrote: post #2

I don't see the issue here. If you're going to update your drivers for an antiquated OS, might as well just upgrade it im the process. Switching to Linux would also give you much more flexibility for long-term maintenance.

Why someone should install a new version of system that introduces all kind of spying and data harvesting just to use it as they used to? It's like saying oh you need to change the oil, why don't you buy a new car while at it?

And a UI that threw away a decade+ of desktop user experience metrics for a half baked not quite tablet UI on the desktop that still to this day is sub-optimal to the UI they had in win95.
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