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Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

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Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#31

Post by ironmagma »

preommr wrote: post #30
rubicon33 wrote: post #15

Somewhat of an aside, since this article is about Flutter on embedded systems where React Native isn't even a consideration but... I've used both Flutter and React Native. Hands down, Flutter is the more enjoyable experience. Everything from the language, to the toolkit, to the IDE, to the final product, is just BETTER. React Native is a bloated, hacky, slow, garbage pile by comparison.

I can't figure out flutter. I see so many rave reviews. But I personally tried it and strongly disliked it. The toolkit and Android Studio run horribly slow - like really slow. And the output is basically this generation's flash. Some of the samples I tried on their gallery are mediocre. Very slight, but noticeable sluggishness. Some are just terrible; the 2d transformations moves at like 7fps. Plus there are so many…

Flutter is just for people who need to get something basic done without too much trouble, I think. It's been over a decade of mobile UI iteration and we still don't have something that does everything for all OSes in a declarative way, so I think we are just doomed to writing a native app for each platform if you want performance, correctness in terms of UI, and productivity.

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#32

Post by haolez »

offtop5 wrote: post #5

Dart is easily my favorite programing language. It's the best parts of C# plus real dynamics. The Flutter ecosystem is already above and ahead of React Native , a big part of it is it doesn't have the baggage of npm, Babel and JavaScript. For a friend's side project I've been using Flutter Web and I couldn't be happier with it

It's unfortunate that the web mode uses a canvas and won't work with native browser accessibility stuff. That was the show stopper for me last time I've tried it.

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#33

Post by DerDangDerDang »

Flutter looks great, and I seriously considered it for my next project. In the end I decided the possibility of Google getting bored and ending support was enough to tip me to using Qt Quick instead - even though I kinda dislike Qt and js, and will have to pay for it.

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#34

Post by kettro »

cletus wrote: post #28

Honestly I don't get the appeal of Dart/Flutter for this use case for two major reasons: 1. Dart is garbage-collected; and 2. Dart has optional typing, which is to say it supports type hints but is essentially dynamically rather than statically typed. This presentation claims low overhead so I'm open to be proven wrong here. I wonder how much of that (if true) is Flutter and how much is Wayland (over X). I'd really l…

An important distinction is Embedded and Real-time. Embedded is the all-encompassing tent, while Real-time is a subset thereof.

Embedded includes things with GUIs, like fridges. We're not dealing with 128k of RAM. These can run basic GC'd apps just fine. Pauses really aren't any more of a concern than on desktop, or even less so.

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#35

Post by r_police »

preommr wrote: post #30
rubicon33 wrote: post #15

Somewhat of an aside, since this article is about Flutter on embedded systems where React Native isn't even a consideration but... I've used both Flutter and React Native. Hands down, Flutter is the more enjoyable experience. Everything from the language, to the toolkit, to the IDE, to the final product, is just BETTER. React Native is a bloated, hacky, slow, garbage pile by comparison.

I can't figure out flutter. I see so many rave reviews. But I personally tried it and strongly disliked it. The toolkit and Android Studio run horribly slow - like really slow. And the output is basically this generation's flash. Some of the samples I tried on their gallery are mediocre. Very slight, but noticeable sluggishness. Some are just terrible; the 2d transformations moves at like 7fps. Plus there are so many…

> The toolkit and Android Studio run horribly slow

Stopped reading right there. That's how Android Studio always has been, but, more importantly why are you using it for Flutter development when VSCode was almost built solely for it, you could say.

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#36

Post by young_unixer »

rubicon33 wrote: post #15

Somewhat of an aside, since this article is about Flutter on embedded systems where React Native isn't even a consideration but... I've used both Flutter and React Native. Hands down, Flutter is the more enjoyable experience. Everything from the language, to the toolkit, to the IDE, to the final product, is just BETTER. React Native is a bloated, hacky, slow, garbage pile by comparison.

I didn't like Flutter because I don't like deeply nested code, especially when you have to care about parentheses, braces, brackets and commas, and the standard indentation is only 2 spaces.

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#38

Post by r_police »

singhrac wrote: post #27

I also, independently, started writing an app in Flutter for fun (no experience in mobile/desktop GUI work, several years since I've worked in front-end web). I can give a list of pros/cons that probably overlaps what you've heard: Pros: - The toolkit feels fairly mature and not too hard to parse. I think there's a lot of "this class works with defaults and breaks otherwise" feeling, though the core components are ro…

Futures are very similar to JS Promises. They even have similar APIs and can also be worked with the "async/await" of Flutter

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#39

Post by JoeAltmaier »

kettro wrote: post #34
cletus wrote: post #28

Honestly I don't get the appeal of Dart/Flutter for this use case for two major reasons: 1. Dart is garbage-collected; and 2. Dart has optional typing, which is to say it supports type hints but is essentially dynamically rather than statically typed. This presentation claims low overhead so I'm open to be proven wrong here. I wonder how much of that (if true) is Flutter and how much is Wayland (over X). I'd really l…

An important distinction is Embedded and Real-time. Embedded is the all-encompassing tent, while Real-time is a subset thereof. Embedded includes things with GUIs, like fridges. We're not dealing with 128k of RAM. These can run basic GC'd apps just fine. Pauses really aren't any more of a concern than on desktop, or even less so.

My experience is not this.

I've never seen an embedded app with GC.

And embedded is usually dog slow processor running at minimum clock, to save power. So pauses are 10X or more the issue re: desktop.

Re: Graphical User Interface Using Flutter in Embedded Systems [pdf]

#40

Post by Memosyne »

I'll be the contrarian: Is this a good business decision?

Sony has recently stated that it wants to enter the automotive industry but Google is a direct competitor with Waymo and their Nest product has a pretty firm standing in the smart home appliance environment. Is it wise to basically become dependent on a large competitor for such an integral component of your next generation products? What if Google decides to give up maintenance of Flutter to the community and use an internal, better fork? I guess it's the same thing with Microsoft using Chromium to implement Edge and how we're converging towards a complete Google monopoly.

I was an early adopter and proponent of Flutter but that's just not the case anymore. The ecosystem has become inundated by what you might get if you forced copulation between the JS and Android ecosystems. There's a ton of low-substance spam articles, excessive usage of libraries reminiscent of NPM-madness, and just a general obnoxious colorful-emoji-fueled atmosphere. I don't want to be misinterpreted: there are plenty of good Flutter developers and the core engineering team is certainly brilliant. But they're largely overshadowed by a community who continues to drive a good technology into being associated with bloat, poor security, and puerility.

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