Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young • Hacker News Board

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#691

Post by Devils-Avocado » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 1:25 AM UTC

timothycrosley wrote: post #590

Devils-Avocado wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you vaccinate children for something which is less deadly than the flu? This is the case even up to 60 years old.

Articles like this: https://www.news-medical.net/news/20201026/COVID-19-now-like... make me think that's seriously unlikely. I mean unless, you are talking about one of the historical flu pandemics. Yes, this is less deadly then the 1918 flu was in 1918. Then again, I think the 1918 flu would also be less deadly then it was in 1918 if it occurred for the first time today because of other medical advancements.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

Less than 80 people under age age of 15 have died from COVID. Child deaths from COVID are essentially zero.

In the same timeframe about 110 died from influenza. Immunizing children for influenza also seems unnecessary.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#692

Post by taneq » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 2:58 AM UTC

maxehmookau wrote: post #670

taneq wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know if the placebo is laced with something to simulate those side effects? Or is that a clue that you got the real thing? Also I'd assume the vaccine would make you test positive for the immunological screening tests?

This trial doesn't use a placebo, it uses an active control. In this case, an already licenced vaccine for meningitis. So the side-effects I had could be due to that vaccine, I don't know. Yes, in theory it would make me test positive for an antigen test. So I'm barred from donating blood as my sample would show as positive for COVID-19 antibodies.

Oh, interesting! Thanks for the extra info.

Wow, if they're insisting on COVID-19-antibody-free blood for donations that's going to cause problems as a greater percentage of the population gains antibodies to it. I guess they'll have to change to a specific test for current infection.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#693

Post by kortilla » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 3:24 AM UTC

Retric wrote: post #549

kortilla wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without sufficient calories you can’t have an obese population due to physics. Sure you can, you just have starving poor people too.

You don’t get a significant percentage of the population to obese in a famine. Simply maintaining obesity across over 40% of the population takes a lot of energy, let alone morbid obesity numbers.

Yes you certainly can. Famines are not spread equally. The people that can afford to have food shipped in (i.e. anyone who can afford to order things on Amazon) could comfortably remain fat while the entire lower class in their local area suffered from a famine.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#694

Post by kortilla » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 3:28 AM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #677

kortilla wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He was previously governor of California. Guess when California stopped offering free higher education? And why hasn’t California added free public education or expanded housing in the last 20-30 years then?

Many cities have and are. It's worth pointing out that there are literally millions of Trump supporters here, and plenty of Republican politicians to boot. It's not like California is pure blue. Plus, democrats are conservatives, so, it's not like they're automatically leftists just because they're blue.

> Many cities have and are

No, there is not free public education anymore so in California than Texas.

> It's worth pointing out that there are literally millions of Trump supporters here

Don’t try to blame them. They have no power at the state and even the extremely Trump-devoid Bay Area (iirc <10% support) has failed to offer anything approximating a solution to housing or good education. The answer to shitty schools in the bay was a lottery to make sure everyone got to suffer the shit, rather than you know... fixing the shitty schools.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#695

Post by fastball » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 5:19 AM UTC

aaron_m04 wrote: post #690

fastball wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No thanks? Bodily autonomy is arguably the most important human right.

Are you okay with people defecating in public? Just curious.

No, but neither is that an issue of bodily autonomy.

Bodily autonomy is about being in control of what happens to your body — it does not mean you have carte blanche to do whatever you want with your body.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#696

Post by jacquesm » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 7:23 AM UTC

rusk wrote: post #664

jacquesm wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying it is attractive. Just that that will be the consequence, it is not sociopathic on my end, it is on theirs. By not taking the vaccine they are also risking the lives of others who do take it and for whom it isn't effective or who can't take it.

Sociopathic is saying “leave it to individual responsibility”

I don't think that is what it is saying:

https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/sociopath#di...

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#697

Post by rusk » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 7:38 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #696

rusk wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sociopathic is saying “leave it to individual responsibility”

I don't think that is what it is saying: https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/sociopath#di...

Good link, well done.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#698

Post by rusk » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 7:40 AM UTC

BjoernKW wrote: post #669

rusk wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nooooooo - how are people still saying this. There is little evidence at this stage that immunity can be gained in this way, for this particular virus.

There absolutely is evidence of this. It's just not "immunity for life", which is what people commonly seem to think of when they're talking about immunity. When you've had an infection with one of those rather harmless yet still pesky other coronaviruses - otherwise known as the common cold - you're also immune, for a limited period of time, that is.

There are plenty of cases of people being reinfected quite quickly and frequency of exposure also seems to correlate with serious illness ... the science is still very much “out” on this.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#699

Post by tempestn » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 8:34 AM UTC

fastball wrote: post #695

aaron_m04 wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you okay with people defecating in public? Just curious.

No, but neither is that an issue of bodily autonomy. Bodily autonomy is about being in control of what happens to your body — it does not mean you have carte blanche to do whatever you want with your body.

So, logically the solution is not to mandate the vaccine, but to restrict what unvaccinated people can do, where necessary to protect others. For example, if not vaccinated, you should continue to wear a mask while indoors in public (as long as local virus cases are above a given threshold), as well as avoiding large gatherings.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#700

Post by maxehmookau » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 9:53 AM UTC

taneq wrote: post #692

maxehmookau wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This trial doesn't use a placebo, it uses an active control. In this case, an already licenced vaccine for meningitis. So the side-effects I had could be due to that vaccine, I don't know. Yes, in theory it would make me test positive for an antigen test. So I'm barred from donating blood as my sample would show as positive for COVID-19 antibodies.

Oh, interesting! Thanks for the extra info. Wow, if they're insisting on COVID-19-antibody-free blood for donations that's going to cause problems as a greater percentage of the population gains antibodies to it. I guess they'll have to change to a specific test for current infection.

Sorry, I think I was unclear!

This is a rule only for those in the trial. If I donate blood today, having had the vaccine, and the blood donation service checks my blood for antibodies and informs me that I had COVID-19 (or so they think!), then I will have been unblinded in the trial which isn't allowed.

This isn't the case for the general population. I'm also not allowed to take part in any other antibody tests that might accidentally unblind me in the trial.