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Amiga 1000 Phoenix Project

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21–25 of 25 posts

Re: Amiga 1000 Phoenix Project

#21
post #14

Like already said in this thread: the Amiga was a product of its time because it introduced some hardware and software features that were radical at that time. If you want to make an Amiga 2020 today you will really need something that the normal PC/Apple/phone/console does not do. For example: The Amiga 2020 needs: a 64 core CPU in which each core or set of cores can run a fully independent&secure version of the OS.…

I could definintely get behind sets of cores and associated L3 cache being isentified as a task unit.

Core affinity and NUMA will do that for you, if I’m not mistaken.

Re: Amiga 1000 Phoenix Project

#22
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me Amiga's identity was: • stunning graphics, audio, GUI, and multitasking • demoscene community • platform where "indie" creativity created "AAA" games So it was mostly an artifact of its time. I don't think you can pack exactly these things in a single device any more. Maaaybe if there was a next-gen console, but with an open OS and hackable hardware? But graphics are reaching diminishing returns (RTX is nice, b…

Do we really want MultiTasking? This is a question that I have been pondering for a while. What made the Amiga / ST / Archimidies special was that all that computing horse power, for the era, was dedicated to a single 'user' task. Today we have powerful hardware that doesn't seem to live up to its potential. I have no data but one wonders how many cache misses of a foreground application are the result of a backgroun…

68000 didn't have a cache, so problem solved ;)

The OS was part of the "wow" factor, especially ability to have multiple applications with different screen resolutions at the same time on the same monitor.

Amiga had some important software like Deluxe Paint, Pro Tracker, LightWave 3D. You could develop games on it, not just play them. Cult of the OS lives on in AROS and MorphOS.

Re: Amiga 1000 Phoenix Project

#23
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People at the time thought computers were "good enough" as well. I don't think that was true. People thought some computers were powerful but we were always aware of their limitations. We just never imagined those limitations would go away as spectacularly as they have. I also don't agree with the iPhone comparison. Maybe smart phone (generalised) but the smart phone idea was about long before Apple entered the mar…

The original question was: "what a current Amiga would be in order to capture the qualitative jump the original offered when it was launched?". There were computers before the Amiga as well, but it represented a shift from computers as a business tool to a general purpose device. What the iPhone did was introduce a whole new way of thinking about the phone -- as an entertainment device -- in the same way that the Ami…

> The original question was: "what a current Amiga would be in order to capture the qualitative jump the original offered when it was launched?".

Yes, but you drifted off that topic a little and I followed your tangent further. That's how conversations organically flow. ;)

> There were computers before the Amiga as well, but it represented a shift from computers as a business tool to a general purpose device.

Computers were already a general purpose devices when Amiga was released (I remember that well because I was doing exactly that with computers prior to Amiga). I don't disagree it was the best computer on the market though.

What the Amiga represented for me was a shift from a text orientated interface to graphical interface. Amiga wasn't alone either, you had Atari ST, Acorn Electron and the Apple Macintosh (though they weren't as big in Europe as the other 3). I never really considered Windows part of that shift because it wasn't really until the 90s when Windows started to add any significant value over DOS -- which was nearly a decade after their competition was released.

> What the iPhone did was introduce a whole new way of thinking about the phone -- as an entertainment device

I'm going to have to disagree with you there as well. I was using phones as entertainment devices long before the iPhones launch. The Sony Ericsson handsets I described were specifically sold as multimedia devices. The N-Gage was a hand held games console come mobile phone which capitalised on the success of gaming on phones and that was somewhere in the region of 5 years before the iPhone was released. I was playing even playing Tomb Raider 1 and 2 on my PDA long before iPhones release.

What Apple did with smart phones was make them "sexy". But that's purely marketing.

> I owned a PocketPC and a Palm Treo, but those were both productivity tools and the iPhone was something entirely different in the same way Amgiga was a shift away from the PC as a business tool.

Palm Treo and Blackberries definitely were business tools. But PocketPC was a lot more versatile. I used mine mostly for gaming and listening to music (I'm pretty sure I was running Winamp on that device). PocketPC definitely wasn't "sexy" though.

> Amgiga was a shift away from the PC as a business tool

I mean sure, if you ignore all the 70s and 80s 8 bit micros bought for kids playing games. In fact that was basically what kept Commodore afloat before they released the Amiga because their business-orientated machines (like the Plus/4) didn't sell well, unlike the C64.

Gaming on the Amstrad CPC 464 was so successful that Alan Sugar released a dedicated games console variant (it even supported cartridges).

Then you have the Sinclair machines like the Spectrum and ZX80. Clive Sinclair purposely built cheaper machines and went after the lower end of the market to attract family homes rather than businesses and because of that an generation of kids grew up playing games on them.

Acorn's BBC Micro was aimed at schools so is as much an educational machine as it is anything else. A great machine it was too. That and the Amstrad CPC 464 are probably my two favourite machines from the pre-ST/Amiga days.

> I don't see another plucky upstart shifting the hardware paradigm of computing.

Commodore wasn't a plucky upstart when they released the Amiga. They already had close on a decade of computers on the market. Some successful and others weren't. Not to mention the electronic hardware they sold prior to their 70s entry into micro computing with the PET.

In fact Commodore were older than most of the competition: Apple, Sinclair, Atari, Microsoft, Acorn, Amstrad (so many companies starting with the letter A!)

Though I will admit Commodore prior to the Amiga was reportedly a very different company (didn't the technical teams and some leadership effectively trade places with Atari? But I wasn't working for either company so I can only go by what I've read on that particularly point)

Going back to your point though, I do see the hardware paradigm shifting. I'd already mentioned augmented wearables. The next stage after that is augmented implants (though that is a long long way off). Smart phones are convenient but we're already seeing a shift away from them with smart watches. Google couldn't make Glass sexy but that's mostly a marketing problem and we do have a whole new generation who've grown up with Facebook et al and thus who many don't have the same privacy complaints that us grey beards do. So there is a culture shift there waiting to happen.

Re: Amiga 1000 Phoenix Project

#24
post #2

One thing I find fascinating about modern Amiga scene is the amount of various adapters and clever connector solutions (PLCC sockets mounted upside down and such).

An upside-down PLCC socket? I'm having trouble picturing what exactly that would look like or how it would even work... can you link to a photo?

Re: Amiga 1000 Phoenix Project

#25
post #2

One thing I find fascinating about modern Amiga scene is the amount of various adapters and clever connector solutions (PLCC sockets mounted upside down and such).

An upside-down PLCC socket? I'm having trouble picturing what exactly that would look like or how it would even work... can you link to a photo?

This may help you picture it.

"In the A600 the CPU is soldered directly to the mainboard and cannot be removed. Thus the only way to install it is to clip it over the CPU, using a PLCC socket placed upside-down. PLCC sockets are not meant to be used this way, so this is really a bit of a hack and might not even work in all cases. Space around the CPU is quite limited, hence the odd shape of this board."

https://github.com/SukkoPera/OpenAmiga600FastRamExpansion

Definitely not contemplated during the design/spec of the PLCC socket, I'm sure!

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