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A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

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Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#191

Post by dheera »

ashtonkem wrote: post #143

I really hate arguments about how much electricity wireless phone charging wastes because it makes people feel like they’re doing something when in fact they aren’t. Charging a cell phone every day for a year consumes about 1-2 kWh per phone. The average American household consumes 10,399 kWh per year, meaning that a typical smart phone consumes one 5000th, (0.02%) of a typical home’s electricity (excl. natural gas)…

IMO the single biggest environmentally-unfriendly move Apple made is not allowing user serviceability.

Even a simple ability to swap your phone's battery for a new one would reduce a lot of emissions. But they want you to spend $$$ on new stuff, so they make it hard for you to fix. And on laptops, soldered SSDs, soldered RAM, non-swappable batteries. You HAVE to buy a new PC even if you just want a little more hard disk space.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#192

Post by Polylactic_acid »

newbie578 wrote: post #164
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value for money you get with each device keeps going up. The update support lifetime keeps going up to the point where devices are getting 6+ years of updates while the SoC gets further ahead of the snapdragon range every year. I have both android tablets and an iPad from 2014 and the ipad still feels like a modern device with the latest OS version while the android tablets are stuck on a 2015 build of android an…

I won't dispute the state of Android tablets. You are right there, android tablets suck, iPad is a way better product, and it has a really good value for money ($350 ftw). Yes, the SoC gets improved each year, but so does their ability to manufacture, i.e. the manufacturing costs should go down, and they keep spending the same amount on R&D to innovate. Economies of scale also play its part.

It seems like the price is fixed. Apple has done the research to know exactly what price they can sell the phone for. The only variable factor is how much stuff they put in the phone. When manufacturing costs go down they add in something that was previously cut due to cost.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#193

Post by Polylactic_acid »

gruez wrote: post #160
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a sufficiently complex product/company there is absolutely no way to work where costs went. Yes the SE without a doubt just become worse value but we have no way of knowing where the money went. Likely it didn't just vanish in to a wormhole but it instead will be invested in to R&D giving a better value for money product in the future. The only thing consumers need to think about is "Does this product provide enou…

>In a sufficiently complex product/company there is absolutely no way to work where costs went. Yes the SE without a doubt just become worse value but we have no way of knowing where the money went. Likely it didn't just vanish in to a wormhole but it instead will be invested in to R&D giving a better value for money product in the future. I'm not sure whether this is satire or an sincere attempt at arguing that pric…

I'm just saying it doesn't matter how the internal economics of the company work. Look at the end product and think "Is this providing enough value for its price". Trying to track a $3 cost savings through a complex supply chain is fruitless.

If the savings really did just go to C level pockets then the product next year would be less compelling than the competitions so you would logically pick the other offerings.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#194

Post by megablast »

allenu wrote: post #177
ashtonkem wrote: post #143

I really hate arguments about how much electricity wireless phone charging wastes because it makes people feel like they’re doing something when in fact they aren’t. Charging a cell phone every day for a year consumes about 1-2 kWh per phone. The average American household consumes 10,399 kWh per year, meaning that a typical smart phone consumes one 5000th, (0.02%) of a typical home’s electricity (excl. natural gas)…

Thanks for doing the math. I always found it funny that Apple was advertising how they were doing such a great service to the environment by not packing in a charger. If they really cared about the environment, they'd avoid updating their product every year and encourage users to keep using the same device for longer, but of course they would never do that.

This is just silly. And what you say is the opposite. If I need a new phone now, you think I should buy a year or 2 year old phone? That will not last as long.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#195

Post by joshl325 »

samatman wrote: post #186
Shivetya wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-C would have been the true environmentally friendly move

Throwing away a billion devices worth of accessories isn't the environmentally friendly move. I'm always confused how people talk themselves into believing this. It is obviously not the case.

Unless Apple decides to ditch the port entirely in the near future, your argument doesn't make sense.

Sure, there will be some minor pain during the transition, but the world did not end when Apple transitioned from the 30-pin to Lighting transition, nor did it end when phone manufacturers transitioned from micro-USB to USB-C. You can use USB-C to lightning adapter, like how they have 30-pin to lightning adapter earlier.

Nobody will throwaway their lightning accessories. iPhones and its accessories have a strong used market, and it will find good homes to older iPhone users.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#196

Post by joshl325 »

fastball wrote: post #83
Zak wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm disappointed Apple hasn't dropped Lightning and just made all their devices use standard USB-C. I could see their motivation for developing their own connector when everyone else was using micro-B, which has a number of disadvantages, but now USB-C is used to power virtually every other phone and tablet, and many laptops including Apple's own.

The theory I've heard is that they're planning to remove the charge port entirely in the iPhone 13, and therefore it would be a massive engineering waste to make only a single generation of phones with USB-C. But yeah, I really wanted USB-C. Bought the phone anyway though.

I can see that happen. Which will suck if you use your phones for camping trips or vacation where you need to charge on the fly.

Maybe in a few years wireless charging will be efficient enough that you don't have to bring a larger power bank to compensate for power loss.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#197

Post by 0df8dkdf »

ashtonkem wrote: post #143

I really hate arguments about how much electricity wireless phone charging wastes because it makes people feel like they’re doing something when in fact they aren’t. Charging a cell phone every day for a year consumes about 1-2 kWh per phone. The average American household consumes 10,399 kWh per year, meaning that a typical smart phone consumes one 5000th, (0.02%) of a typical home’s electricity (excl. natural gas)…

stop supporting new devices. Do we really need them?

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#198

Post by vl »

robocat wrote: post #125
skohan wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect your responses are incredibly condescending. I believe my point stands. If you disagree, I suggest that you propose a concrete model which would refute my thesis. I don’t know who you are to speak for the “HN community”.

Touché. I apologise, you are correct. You are still avoiding answering my criticism of your original thesis. Edit: I’ll append the approximations at the base of my heuristic: * I only care about marginal $deltas when comparing * an extra shipping container costs $10000 * one cubic metre holds 1000 one litre boxes * a charger costs Apple $5 * total marginal $delta shipping costs are less than 10 times the delta in shi…

They ship by plane, and I believe it's constrained by weight, not volume. I.e. iPhone 12 Pro weighs 189 grams, packaging + cable approx 50 grams more. And USB-C 20W brick is 62 grams.

I.e. adding power brick would increase shipping weight and cost by 25%.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#199

Post by grishka »

fastball wrote: post #83
Zak wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm disappointed Apple hasn't dropped Lightning and just made all their devices use standard USB-C. I could see their motivation for developing their own connector when everyone else was using micro-B, which has a number of disadvantages, but now USB-C is used to power virtually every other phone and tablet, and many laptops including Apple's own.

The theory I've heard is that they're planning to remove the charge port entirely in the iPhone 13, and therefore it would be a massive engineering waste to make only a single generation of phones with USB-C. But yeah, I really wanted USB-C. Bought the phone anyway though.

They already make iPads with USB-C, so I presume most of the engineering work has already been done.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#200

Post by ashtonkem »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #153
ashtonkem wrote: post #143

I really hate arguments about how much electricity wireless phone charging wastes because it makes people feel like they’re doing something when in fact they aren’t. Charging a cell phone every day for a year consumes about 1-2 kWh per phone. The average American household consumes 10,399 kWh per year, meaning that a typical smart phone consumes one 5000th, (0.02%) of a typical home’s electricity (excl. natural gas)…

I do notice a certain glee we have when we can frame other people wasting energy in ways we don't happen to waste ourselves. As if wireless phone charging or bitcoin mining or X are the last unturned stones in the pursuit of zero waste. Some condescension we can share on HN before we drive to Walmart for a single gallon of milk. It's weird how tempting it is. I had a roommate that used our clothes dryer daily. I have…

Uhh, wireless charging and Bitcoin mining are literally orders of magnitudes apart. Bitcoin is estimated to have consumed over 64tWh of electricity last year, more than Switzerland.
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