Live data from Hacker News

Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

semianalysis.com

101–110 of 183 posts

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#101

I think this is cool if they’re the future of the Mac, but aren’t these chips just wasted in the iPad? I say this as an iPad Pro (1st-gen) owner ... it’s already way more processing power than I can really use, because after trying for months to get a sensible workflow going (mostly based around Pythonista, Editorial and RealVNC) I’ve relegated it to a OneNote and Netflix machine. What’s the point other than the cool…

That is the way you want it. You don’t want it the other way.

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#102
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the argument here is "buy an iPad pro so frontend developers don't need to learn optimization"...?

Buy an iPad pro because time and time again we have seen that optimizing is not a priority for the majority of business. I think the cynicism here is that if only these frontend developers would just learn to optimize we would all finally be better off. I think there are two factors that push against this though. First, if you learn to optimize then you can charge more for your labor, and you will likely get a job so…

Amazon and Google have published a truly tremendous amount of data about how fraction-of-a-second differences in loading time can have outsized impacts on bounce rate. It continues to be amazing to me that so many businesses just completely fail at understanding this basic truth. Speed is a competitive advantage. Doubly so when many of your competitors don't realize it.

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#103

I found this to be a pretty confusing article. I get that they are analyzing the new node, which is great, but the editorializing seems a bit premature to me. I also don't think the author understood the TMSC presentation. TMSC clearly said that is used a "model" of a typical SOC of 60% logic, 30% SRAM, and 10% analog. Then they said that for each category of thing, you could expect 1.8x, 1.35x, and 1.2x of shrink. I…

TSMC has a monopoly on the highest performance processes - so the price won't drop till there is competition. Seeing how the competition is falling behind, that will be a while...

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#104
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but Qualcomm, Nvidia, AMD and countless others use the same fabs or at least have access to the same fabs. It's Apple's engineering and design.

"Apple Books TSMC's Entire 5nm Production Capability" https://www.extremetech.com/computing/315186-apple-books-tsm... so it seems apple paid to get to the front of the line

I see them as Apple paid to get to the front of the line and get 5nm built faster, they'll have the capacity for now. But other companies well benefit in the coming years as they can use the 5nm process sooner, more bugs ironed out and at a lower cost. Like what's happened to the older 32nm fabs.

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#105
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the argument here is "buy an iPad pro so frontend developers don't need to learn optimization"...?

Buy an iPad pro because time and time again we have seen that optimizing is not a priority for the majority of business. I think the cynicism here is that if only these frontend developers would just learn to optimize we would all finally be better off. I think there are two factors that push against this though. First, if you learn to optimize then you can charge more for your labor, and you will likely get a job so…

Also: https://www.sicpers.info/2020/10/discipline-doesnt-scale/

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just looking into optimising a large web application. I told the customer that using a caching layer such as a CDN would help paper over the worst of the inefficiencies in their application and the network stack. That was true! The download times halved. However, benchmarks with F12 developer tools showed that while downloads reduced from 200ms to 100ms, the overall load times were still seconds, of which about…

There is no speed of computer which cannot be overwhelmed by badly written code. I guess your point is that sloppy web developers / web companies make poorly performing code and shift the burden of handling it out to visitors’ machines, so those machines have to keep improving to not be left behind? That might be true, but is pretty depressing.

Conversely: There is no speed of computer which cannot be utilised to reduce developer effort.

Faster computers enable easier programming strategies, which improve net productivity. People are expensive, so giving them better "power tools" improves efficiency.

We don't complain that coal miners just need to shovel more efficiently. We give them enormous trucks and hydraulic mining shovels.

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#107
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apple Books TSMC's Entire 5nm Production Capability" https://www.extremetech.com/computing/315186-apple-books-tsm... so it seems apple paid to get to the front of the line

And the problem there is? Any one of those companies are all long term TSMC customers and I have no doubt have solid working relationships with them. They would have had similar opportunity to book that fab capacity too.

The problem is the assertion that "It's Apple's engineering and design". Engineering & design don't buy you the entire world's supply of the best in class fab capacity for some months: money does.

It seems to me apple's marketing and product strategy has more to do with bringing in that money than actual engineering and design, contradicting the original assertion.

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#108

I think this is cool if they’re the future of the Mac, but aren’t these chips just wasted in the iPad? I say this as an iPad Pro (1st-gen) owner ... it’s already way more processing power than I can really use, because after trying for months to get a sensible workflow going (mostly based around Pythonista, Editorial and RealVNC) I’ve relegated it to a OneNote and Netflix machine. What’s the point other than the cool…

I work on a x86 interpreter that is only usable because of Apple's massive investment into these chips over the last couple years. I doubt that is what Apple was designing them for, but they are very useful to have as an application developer.

Are you the developer of iSH by any chance? If so, very cool project. Was it hard to get it published in the App Store?

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#109

I found this to be a pretty confusing article. I get that they are analyzing the new node, which is great, but the editorializing seems a bit premature to me. I also don't think the author understood the TMSC presentation. TMSC clearly said that is used a "model" of a typical SOC of 60% logic, 30% SRAM, and 10% analog. Then they said that for each category of thing, you could expect 1.8x, 1.35x, and 1.2x of shrink. I…

TSMC has a monopoly on the highest performance processes - so the price won't drop till there is competition. Seeing how the competition is falling behind, that will be a while...

TSMC is about to win on packaging too

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20201026VL200.html

Re: Apple’s A14 Packs 134M Transistors/mm²

#110

I found this to be a pretty confusing article. I get that they are analyzing the new node, which is great, but the editorializing seems a bit premature to me. I also don't think the author understood the TMSC presentation. TMSC clearly said that is used a "model" of a typical SOC of 60% logic, 30% SRAM, and 10% analog. Then they said that for each category of thing, you could expect 1.8x, 1.35x, and 1.2x of shrink. I…

The column is explicitly labelled "effective vs theoretical" though. There is nothing misleading there.
Post reply on HN