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A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

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Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#71

Post by Polylactic_acid »

samatman wrote: post #38

Literally every one of the existing options still works. Ok with charging at 5w? Plug your lightning-to-A cable into the little tiny cube charger they've been selling since forever. Already have a faster USB charger? It works. Ok with Qi at 7W? Works Oh, you want the new shiny MagSafe puck system? Great. Buy it. This analysis completely ignores that the new shiny system is supposed to be a better experience . It's co…

Also the fact that the described situation may occur once, but then forever after you will have both usb c and a bricks so you will be set for whatever future devices you get rather than being given a brick every single time while most go unused.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#72

Post by tiernano »

Zak wrote: post #59
samatman wrote: post #38

Literally every one of the existing options still works. Ok with charging at 5w? Plug your lightning-to-A cable into the little tiny cube charger they've been selling since forever. Already have a faster USB charger? It works. Ok with Qi at 7W? Works Oh, you want the new shiny MagSafe puck system? Great. Buy it. This analysis completely ignores that the new shiny system is supposed to be a better experience . It's co…

I'm disappointed Apple hasn't dropped Lightning and just made all their devices use standard USB-C. I could see their motivation for developing their own connector when everyone else was using micro-B, which has a number of disadvantages, but now USB-C is used to power virtually every other phone and tablet, and many laptops including Apple's own.

Hold on there sparky... If they did that, they would loose money on both the new chargers they sell people, plus every other adapter seller would need to change products, and then buying a charger that works with both iPhone and Android on one cable!?! Sacrilege! /s

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#73

Post by petre »

Zak wrote: post #59
samatman wrote: post #38

Literally every one of the existing options still works. Ok with charging at 5w? Plug your lightning-to-A cable into the little tiny cube charger they've been selling since forever. Already have a faster USB charger? It works. Ok with Qi at 7W? Works Oh, you want the new shiny MagSafe puck system? Great. Buy it. This analysis completely ignores that the new shiny system is supposed to be a better experience . It's co…

I'm disappointed Apple hasn't dropped Lightning and just made all their devices use standard USB-C. I could see their motivation for developing their own connector when everyone else was using micro-B, which has a number of disadvantages, but now USB-C is used to power virtually every other phone and tablet, and many laptops including Apple's own.

USB-C is great but the Lightning connector is still better designed. Oh and you can downvote me all you want, I'm an electrical engineer, not an Apple fanboy. Don't like the phone. Anyway, they should at least include a cable.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#74

Post by m463 »

samatman wrote: post #38

Literally every one of the existing options still works. Ok with charging at 5w? Plug your lightning-to-A cable into the little tiny cube charger they've been selling since forever. Already have a faster USB charger? It works. Ok with Qi at 7W? Works Oh, you want the new shiny MagSafe puck system? Great. Buy it. This analysis completely ignores that the new shiny system is supposed to be a better experience . It's co…

Qi is fine. You can get a dock/pad with cable and charger sometimes for less than the cost of a lightning cable.

Personally I have an anker dock and I stopped buying any apple accessories.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#75

Post by throwanem »

Zak wrote: post #59
samatman wrote: post #38

Literally every one of the existing options still works. Ok with charging at 5w? Plug your lightning-to-A cable into the little tiny cube charger they've been selling since forever. Already have a faster USB charger? It works. Ok with Qi at 7W? Works Oh, you want the new shiny MagSafe puck system? Great. Buy it. This analysis completely ignores that the new shiny system is supposed to be a better experience . It's co…

I'm disappointed Apple hasn't dropped Lightning and just made all their devices use standard USB-C. I could see their motivation for developing their own connector when everyone else was using micro-B, which has a number of disadvantages, but now USB-C is used to power virtually every other phone and tablet, and many laptops including Apple's own.

I'd take the power brick out of the box and introduce the new wireless charging stuff first, too. Let people finish yelling about that first, then set off the inevitable rehash of the "but none of my dock connector accessories will work with my new phone! Apple just wants more money argh argh argh" fussing.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#76

Post by jiofih »

selectodude wrote: post #58
criddell wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a massive net positive on the eco-friendly front Isn't wireless charging a big step backwards with respect to power efficiency? With the millions of phones they sell and the fact that every one of them is charged daily, are the losses due to Apples new charging scheme insignificant?

If a MagSafe charger can charge at 15W using a 20W Apple charger, that's a 75 percent charge efficiency. The charger itself is about 80 percent efficient converting from the wall, so the whole thing is about 60 percent efficient. An iPhone 12 has a 15 wh battery, so you need about 25 wh to charge the battery fully vs 19 wh. So the losses for 17,000 full charges using MagSafe over a regular cable would equal the charg…

Your numbers are a bit high, wired chargers have become more efficient and barely waste any energy, see here: (14wh spent to charge a 13wh battery) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309917872_Improving...

The last bit is also wrong, 6wh * 10M = 600 Teslas. You can also read as “600 Teslas can provide phone charging for ten million people for an entire year”, take it as you wish...

Your fridge can easily use 100kWh a month. You’ll save far more energy by closing the door a couple seconds early every time you open it. Phone charging is a drop in the bucket.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#77

Post by stocknoob »

criddell wrote: post #36
Bud wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? All of those old USB-A chargers and USB-A/Lightning cables will still charge the new iPhones perfectly well. So will every iPad charger ever made, btw. And every USB-C Mac charger ever made. Honestly, it doesn't matter whether you or any particular observer wants to give credit for this reducing e-waste or being "eco-friendly". It's a plainly obvious fact that it will massively reduce e-waste and be a massive ne…

> a massive net positive on the eco-friendly front Isn't wireless charging a big step backwards with respect to power efficiency? With the millions of phones they sell and the fact that every one of them is charged daily, are the losses due to Apples new charging scheme insignificant?

I'd say the energy used to charge phones is inconsequential.

The iPhone 12 has a 11 Wh battery. Assume it's fully charged daily, that's 11Wh * 365 ~ 4kwh per year. It's about 50 cents of electricity to charge the phone for a year. It's imperceptible given other household electricity items.

If people are concerned about electricity usage, they should give away LED lightbulbs.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#78

Post by Polylactic_acid »

jiofih wrote: post #60
criddell wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a massive net positive on the eco-friendly front Isn't wireless charging a big step backwards with respect to power efficiency? With the millions of phones they sell and the fact that every one of them is charged daily, are the losses due to Apples new charging scheme insignificant?

Wired chargers are 85%-90% efficient, Qi is somewhat between 75-85%. If you live in a country powered by green energy it shouldn’t be a concern :)

I'm going to guess that 15% missing on the wired is the brick itself. I'm not sure how 5% more losses can make my phone heat up quite hot and also charge very slow. Are you sure it isn't 15% lost at the brick powering the wireless charger and then another 20-25% on the charging pad itself?

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#79

Post by ogre_codes »

I've spent the past couple years acquiring USB-C chargers for my MacBook and my iPad so it really doesn't play out in my household. While I don't have the "Puck" style charger, I do have a 29w USB-C charger I've used for fast charging my iPad for some time.

While I agree with this guys article on a large part, I suspect the amount of extra waste here is over-stated. There will be fair number of people (like me) who saw the USB-C writing on the wall years ago. There are also a fair number of people who will just use the same cable they use on their current phone.

I do think they should have either shipped a USB-A cable in the box since it's still the norm. Or at better, they should have switched to a USB-C brick a couple years ago then people would have them around.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#80

Post by Polylactic_acid »

oarsinsync wrote: post #28
Bud wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it's an optimal experience: my device cost went down, I get to choose what I spend that money on (such as superior 3rd-party chargers with multiple ports), and I get the satisfaction of knowing that Apple didn't waste planetary resources making inflexible single-port chargers and $5 wired earbuds that I will never, ever use. I do admit that it's not optimal for every single user, but I do think it's a net impr…

> my device cost went down This seems to be a common narrative, that the savings have been passed onto the consumer. Is it really true? It's difficult to be sure, as there's no iPhone 12 that comes with the plug + earbuds bundled. However, there is one data point that most people don't bother to consider. The iPhone SE (2020) base model launched at $399 in April. It still retails for $399 today. In April, the iPhone…

In a sufficiently complex product/company there is absolutely no way to work where costs went. Yes the SE without a doubt just become worse value but we have no way of knowing where the money went. Likely it didn't just vanish in to a wormhole but it instead will be invested in to R&D giving a better value for money product in the future.

The only thing consumers need to think about is "Does this product provide enough value to me for its cost". For me personally a charging brick and earpods provides no value since I would just leave them in the box.

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