Live data from Hacker News

Yann LeCun on GPT-3

facebook.com

171–180 of 253 posts

Re: Yann LeCun on GPT-3

#171

I have a really hard time believing that LeCun thinks this is true. GPT3 is outstanding at conversation. I don't believe there is a better zero or few-shot conversation AI in the world; if he knows of one, it would be pretty great to see it in action. Here is a conversation I had with my GPT-3 chatbot a few months ago. It is cherry picked in the sense that I have had non-sensical conversations as well, but I did not…

It depends on how you define shallow. I find GPT3 is indeed amazing at general knowledge, and making plausible sentences and conversations out of that general knowledge. However, if I start asking it questions which probably haven't have been asked before, or to connect ideas, it often falls apart.

Re: Yann LeCun on GPT-3

#172
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question isn't whether high-altitude planes can go to the moon, it's whether human intelligence is closer to the clouds or to the moon. For all the talk about how language models "just" learn correlations, there's a remarkable dearth of evidence that humans do something qualitatively different.

> For all the talk about how language models "just" learn correlations, there's a remarkable dearth of evidence that humans do something qualitatively different. GPT3 doesn't know the difference between a given set of characters and the idea/object the characters represent. It can associate "river" and "stream" and "water" but has no understanding beyond that they appear in patterns together. It couldn't possibly mak…

> It couldn't possibly make the connection that river and streams are bodies of water, because there is no association with reality.

Yet if you asked it if rivers and streams are bodies of water it would probably say that they are.

Likewise if I asked you if black holes and neutron stars are both celestial bodies you would say yes... but you've presumably never seen them, only read about them.

Now I think you could argue that you could ultimately tie your knowledge back to some reality, like star ties to the sun and how you've seen the sun, but I haven't been so convinced that we know enough about how the mind works to be sure that the distinction between form and meaning is real.

Assuming there is no "soul" which makes meat life special, I don't see any fundamental problems with building simulated intelligence.

Re: Yann LeCun on GPT-3

#173
post #92

I've got a friend who tries to talk me down every time i enthuse about GPT-3 or similar. He seems to think I believe it to me more amazing than it is whereas I struggle to convince him that I think I've got a good handle on it's limitations and I still find it mind-bogglingly amazing.

Not sure if this is intentional or not, but this sounds potentially bot-written because of a typo and grammatical error.

No. I just typed it on a mobile device. (but maybe that's exactly what a bot would say...)

EDIT: Actually - that's no excuse for that awful second sentence. I'm ashamed of myself.

Re: Yann LeCun on GPT-3

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this is intentional or not, but this sounds potentially bot-written because of a typo and grammatical error.

No. I just typed it on a mobile device. (but maybe that's exactly what a bot would say...) EDIT: Actually - that's no excuse for that awful second sentence. I'm ashamed of myself.

Actually - why would a bot be more likely to make typos and grammatical errors? Surely a slightly careless human is the simpler explanation?

Re: Yann LeCun on GPT-3

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like a big deal. What a tempting idea. And a colleague was mildly annoyed with me for how unimpressed I seemed. But you have to understand, the use cases you mention are shallow and limited. The heart of GPT, the fine-tuning, is gone. And it looks like even OpenAI gave up on letting users fine-tune, because it means they essentially do build an entirely new, expensive model for each use case. I wanted to ma…

I think the onus is on you to prove that the use cases are shallow and limited. I've seen GPT-3 already being used for diverse and interesting ideas that would not have occurred to me personally. However, even if they are, the point stands: currently, there are teams of people at companies all over the world tuning models for these shallow and limited use-cases. GPT-3 can replace them all, without OpenAI needing to i…

>However, even if they are, the point stands: currently, there are teams of people at companies all over the world tuning models for these shallow and limited use-cases. GPT-3 can replace them all, without OpenAI needing to invest another cent in training for a particular customer's use-case. That is in fact game-changing for the ML/DL world and current applications thereof.

The counterpoint is that it would be significantly cheaper AND have better performance to fine-tune models to each customer's use case than it is to just run GPT-3 at inference.

Re: Yann LeCun on GPT-3

#176
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animals that do not have a language they can describe the world in still have knowledge about the world.

Personally I do not find the whole "language = knowledge" argument convincing. But if you're interested in reading writers who make that argument (and perhaps I'm vulgarizing the argument a bit), Nietzsche makes it in On Truth and Falsity in their Extra-Moral Sense and George Lakoff makes it in Metaphors We Live By.

I'd also suggest Wittgenstein's Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus, a seminal work of the logical positivist movement. Influenced by Frege's predicate calculus, the aim of the Tractatus was to determine an isomorphic relationship between language, thought, and external states of affairs. An axiomatic attempt to reveal a potentially ideal logical language, that is not interested in meaning per se, but merely an accurate reflection of the world. A closed system that essentially excludes non-falsifiable metaphysical question. Famously concluding with the instruction: "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." Part of Wittgenstein's project, even in its early aggressively logical form, was philosophy as a therapeutic. That is, the metaphysical questions concerning god, being, essence, and forms that had inspired thousands of years worth of fevered conversation, could be finally be quieted. That's not to say they couldn't be meditated on, but were not in the domain of his logical language, and so silence. Again, I think early Wittgenstein sometimes gets misinterpreted, "...therefore one cannot speak" does not, to me, mean that it can't be considered or one must forgo spirituality, just that it couldn't be spoken of within the project of the Tractatus.

Logical empiricism was ultimately a dead end as the criteria for even verifying empirical truth has long been contentious philosophically, and was further critiqued by contemporaries such as Quine who attacked the premise of the analytic/synthetic distinction (think Hume's fork, which Kant tried to solve) and Popper who cited the problem of induction to critique the fundamental premises of the positivists verificationism.

Wittgenstein is an interesting case, as the Tractatus is considered an early work of his, profoundly influential to analytic philosphy at the time, yet his later work, Philosophical Investigations is sometimes seen to retract the dogmatism found in the Tractatus. I tend to take the view that it's a continuation of his thought, rather than a retraction of his earlier work. Crudely, whereas his former thought represented a narrowly axiomatic definition of language and its truth value, PI investigates, among many other ideas, language as an activity, or game, that has meaning dependent on the context of its use, languages as families. Granted, Wittgenstein is a complex thinker and these are simply my interpretations.

It's also curious to note that as positivism was beginning to fall out of favor around the time of the second world war, a continental thinker such as Heidegger, whose thought luxuriated in the kind of metaphysical questions the positivists necessarily eschewed, rose to prominence and was infamously sanctioned by the NSDAP to philosophize about their presumed "destiny". Bit of a tangent, but I think the historical context is relevant, as often philosophical movements are birthed from pre- and post-war attitudes.

Re: Yann LeCun on GPT-3

#177
Just a side note, the company he references, Nabla, was founded by a chunk of the people who created the NLP development platform wit.ai (YC W14[?]) which was acquired by FB in January 2015.

Re: Yann LeCun on GPT-3

#178
Text reproduced, minus abusive shell of dark patterns:

Some people have completely unrealistic expectations about what large-scale language models such as GPT-3 can do.

This simple explanatory study by my friends at Nabla debunks some of those expectations for people who think massive language models can be used in healthcare.

GPT-3 is a language model, which means that you feed it a text and ask it to predict the continuation of the text, one word at a time. GPT-3 doesn't have any knowledge of how the world actually works. It only appears to have some level of background knowledge, to the extent that this knowledge is present in the statistics of text. But this knowledge is very shallow and disconnected from the underlying reality.

As a question-answering system, GPT-3 is not very good. Other approaches that are explicitly built to represent massive amount of knowledge in "neural" associative memories are better at it.

As a dialog system, it's not very good either. Again, other approaches that are explicitly trained to perform to interact with people are better at it. It's entertaining, and perhaps mildly useful as a creative help. But trying to build intelligent machines by scaling up language models is like a high-altitude airplanes to go to the moon. You might beat altitude records, but going to the moon will require a completely different approach.

It's quite possible that some of the current approaches could be the basis of a good QA system for medical applicatioms. The system could be trained on the entire medical literature and answer questions from physicians.

But compiling massive amounts of operational knowledge from text is still very much a research topic.

Re: Yann LeCun on GPT-3

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To remind people: Yann LeCun worked on artificial neural networks (ANN) during the period where they were actively shunned by most of the scientific community. You could barely publish a paper on ANN. Just to demonstrate, one the most common books during period, "Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach, 2nd ed" by Norvig, 1080 pages, has less than one (1!) page dedicated to ANNs. I personally think Norvig is an id…

Marvin Minsky's 1969 book "Perceptrons" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perceptrons_(book) applied rigorous math (e.g. when computer science was new) to prove that a certain kind of single-layer neural network couldn't solve certain problems. (Can't learn XOR) It is like proving that it takes N log N comparisons to sort N items. This dampened interest in neural networks for a long time but the "geometrical thinking in…

Interest in neural networks was renewed with Werbos's (1975) backpropagation algorithm. There was continued progress in ANNs all this time.

I think the aversion to ANNs during the 90s was more philosophical and aesthetic - ANNs math is indeed "ugly" compared to symbolic logic, bayesian inference, SVM (in the 00's), and many other traditional AI methods.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_artificial_neural_n...

Re: Yann LeCun on GPT-3

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think full self driving will remain two years away for a decade at least.

Based on...?

Several things. Mostly that it has to be rolled out slowly because people lives are at stake so testing can run for quite a bit longer than you’d expect. Also that everyone wants to be the one who makes the breakthrough so companies will claim its right around the corner (like fusion) repetitively, i.e. Tesla saying it’d be here in 2018. We’re just at a point where these things can use parking lots so I wouldn’t expect a complete rollout several years as systems are built on top of other systems that have been widely tested and confirmed to work.
Post reply on HN