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I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

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Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#661
post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those SoCs hit (and sustain) their top clocks, whatever those are for that specific SKU. This is actually completely wrong. Almost no laptops sustain their top (boost) clock on heavy workloads. Most usually only sustain max performance for minutes (or seconds!) before throttling. Here's an example chart that shows how various premium Athena/Evo U laptops perform: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-Zenbook-S-UX393JA…

I’ve actually worked with Ryzen SoCs myself (I do board design). This is the problem with all the marketing BS. When I talked about “top clocks”, I wasn’t referring about “boost” clocks. I’m talking of the clocks that the SoC is designed for (that won’t appear on the box), i.e. a lot of laptops are not leaving “performance gaps” due to bad cooling, those SoCs are designed for that level of performance and attaching a…

I agree that there's a lot of misunderstanding on clocks - I've been on the other end - evaluation and validation of embedded boards, including V1000 Ryzen SoCs, but I think I'd disagree somewhat with the characterization of clocks as purely "marketing BS."

Back in the day, most CPUs had had a fixed clock, but these days modern Intel and AMD chips simply don't - they all clock opportunistically, which depends on powers, thermals, but also workload (try running an AVX-512 loads for example). How do you characterize "clock" in this context? Base (minimum) and Boost (hard limit, now split to Max Turbo Now we can argue semantics all day, but to bring it back around if you're just going to say "top clocks" is what the SoC was designed for at a specific workload/power envelope (In AMD's PB, that'd be PPT, TDC, and EDC) then every laptops will "hit their top clocks with no issues," but I'd say that argument (statement?) is a bit circular/pointless. ;P

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are desktop PSUs you can purchase, that have built in UPS. And I recall there was a UPS designed to fit in the case - 5+1/4" drive bays as I recall. A quick google search would probably surface those relics of the past. At the desks in our house we run a UPS, even if a laptop is plugged in to it. The UPS protects the laptop charger, the monitors, the powered USB hub, printer, and other peripherals.

Not a laser printer though, I hope. Just as a PSA for others: Laser printers in particular draw too much inrush current through their fuser drum heater for surge protectors/UPS devices to handle. They (the printers) should be always connected directly to the wall.

The Konica Minolta document center in the workshop is on a dedicated surge suppressor (ESP unit) as recommended by the Konica Minolta service tech, which I picked up from eBay (the surge suppressor, not the tech) for around $150 a couple of years back. The laser printer in the closet is on a APC UPS surge only port that was, AFAIK, rated to handle a laser printer, specifically a HP3600n. I suspect that most lower-end or consumer grade UPS devices, and certainly an $8 surge suppressor from Best Buy just ain't gonna be up to the job.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#663

I prefer a desktop because: 1. I like big, big monitors. 2. I prefer a full size keyboard. 3. I prefer a separate mouse. 4. I prefer big freaking disk drives installed. 5. I put the desktop under my desk, and with a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse, there is much less of a snarl on my desk. 6. The desktop has an optical drive I still use. 7. The desktop has lots of USB ports and they're all in use. 8. I can repla…

1-3. You can attach big screens and keyboard and mouse to a laptop.

4. The size of the drive isn't an issue; you can fit big drives just as easily in a laptop. The only difference is that a desktop PC can fit more than two drives.

I've come to really like the convenience of being able to pick up my workstation and take it with me.

To me, there's only one really, really big disadvantage to laptops: the noise. If I put together a desktop, it's as quiet as possible. Powerful laptops apparently can't be quiet.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I prefer a full size keyboard. Also every laptop has a different - stupid - keyboard layout.

'Fn' on the bottom left and 'Ctrl' to the right of it. ARGH!

This is the one big downside of Thinkpads. They're fantastic otherwise, but what kind of monster puts Fn to the left of Ctrl?

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#665
I think the idea of the 'Personal Computer' has been grossly warped over the past 20 years from a tool that primarily serves our personal goals to a 'Device' that's designed to serve the goals of a corporation. The general public has become 'ok' with the concept of paying for a premium for a device but not really owning it.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a very similar experience - dual-boot is nice but not ideal because restarting takes time and you lose all your context. Now im running a (headless) ubuntu server on the host with a windows VM with GPU passthrough on top. With a modern 6-8 core CPU + extra RAM (+ a cheap 2nd GPU for linux if you want a desktop environment on both linux and windows active at the same time) you can have both windows & linux runni…

I've considered this route myself - are you using KVM in Ubuntu to get passthrough or is there some other hypervisor in play?

im using libvirt, which uses qemu, which uses KVM. There's plenty of good guides if you search for something like "VFIO VM GPU passthrough". Here is a good one:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PCI_passthrough_via_OVM...

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#667
post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you saw in the article I linked that's just not true. Those temps are with airflow, and SSDs go over their temp limit.

Nope. That article states the the ssd was 'naked' which leads me to believe they removed the sticker off it. Those stickers/labels are use to dissipate heat from the controller, so you, you know, don't need a heatsink. They act as a heatsink. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzSIfxHppPY&t=375s

No! Why would you assume crazy modifications like that? They write "naked", it's naked as in not using the heatsink the mainboard supplies. https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/X570-AORUS-MASTER-re... shows the cooler they are talking about.

You will just have to accept that you've been wrong on this topic. Move on, it happens.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#668

I prefer a desktop because: 1. I like big, big monitors. 2. I prefer a full size keyboard. 3. I prefer a separate mouse. 4. I prefer big freaking disk drives installed. 5. I put the desktop under my desk, and with a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse, there is much less of a snarl on my desk. 6. The desktop has an optical drive I still use. 7. The desktop has lots of USB ports and they're all in use. 8. I can repla…

Real work happens here at my desk. The same boring static location with a controlled enviroment with little input from the outside world. Laptops are for shallow work, not much else.

That's what I like about a desktop PC as well. It gives computer-based activities a designated physical place, and therefore the time I spend at the computer is more deliberate.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#669
post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. That article states the the ssd was 'naked' which leads me to believe they removed the sticker off it. Those stickers/labels are use to dissipate heat from the controller, so you, you know, don't need a heatsink. They act as a heatsink. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzSIfxHppPY&t=375s

No! Why would you assume crazy modifications like that? They write "naked", it's naked as in not using the heatsink the mainboard supplies. https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/X570-AORUS-MASTER-re... shows the cooler they are talking about. You will just have to accept that you've been wrong on this topic. Move on, it happens.

No. Lol. Cooling anything other than the controller is pointless. You don’t get throttling from nand. I have the gigabyte x570 elite. That nvme cover does nothing. And unless you’re benchmarking the nvme I highly doubt you’re going to heat up the controller enough to notice it. So yup. I agree. You’re wrong. Let’s move on.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#670
post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NVMe throttling from 2GB/s to 0.5GB/s is usually not thermal , it is an SLC cache exhaustion that brings a drive back to MLC/TLC packing mode. One can get samsung pro or a similar ssd and it will retain 2GB/s indefinitely. On cheaper drives, having a lot of free space (i.e. slc cache) may help. Not sure though what process can generate such sustained write bandwidth beyond few things like copying or video transcoding…

Which is why I replaced the cheap drive in my build desktop with a Samsung Pro NVME. It made a significant difference. Multithreaded builds (make -j 24) can really hammer the drive. Read and write interleaved, which uses up cache in both directions.

I've used their Pro NVME drives as my OS drive for the last few years. Never had any issues with read write speeds either
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