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L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

latimes.com

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Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#211

Post by chowned »

tsdlts wrote: post #55
dusted wrote: post #2

It's amazing how little some people have cared, this was not that they didn't know, they certainly knew, otherwise, it'd not have resorted to hiding the stuff by dumping it into the sea.. It'd not be unreasonable to hunt down those responsible, and make them pay for cleaning it up. Sure, they're probably dead by now, but they probably left a lot of money. I don't think it's even relevant that "it was not illegal at t…

"I don't think it's even relevant that it was not legal at the time". Imagine setting the precedent that the government can unilaterally decide to steal your property based on something your great grandfather did which wasn't even a crime. Do you not see how such a power might be abused in future when you can retroactively punish people for laws where the ink has yet to dry and that they never even committed?

Imagine being able to destroy the environment with impunity. You get rich, and everyone else is forced to live (or die) with the consequences.

Well, you don't have to imagine it, because that's reality.

Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#212

Post by CJefferson »

darkcha0s wrote: post #166
CJefferson wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No-one is talking about putting people in jail, but also (in my opinion), someone shouldn't get to inherit millions of dollars just because their grandfather committed some terrible crime -- inheritance should not be a right, when the original money was acquired illegally.

Whether that punishment is jail time or a fine is secondary. The primary question is, should the decedents be punished for a crime they did not commit? Moreover, where do you draw the line? Should all the decedents of german families who got their wealth off the back of slave labor by jews also be forced to forfeit their wealth? What about the decedents of families of plantation owners? How do you go about handling t…

Honestly, I'd prefer we, as a society, did tend more in this direction. Where I live (Scotland), most of the country is owned by a small number of families, who inherited it themselves. I'd be happy with a model where this land was, possibly over generations, taken away and redisturbed in some way.

Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#213

Post by [deleted] »

dahfizz wrote: post #206
charlesu wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should tax the crap out of everyone’s estates because it’s aligned with the American value of equal opportunity. Do you want to live in a society where everyone has a fair shot? Then you need the estate tax. It’s the great equalizer. We can the funds to improve our schools, roads, and social services so that everyone is a bit better off.

> We should tax the crap out of everyone’s estates because it’s aligned with the American value of equal opportunity. Do you want to live in a society where everyone has a fair shot? I do not understand this sentiment one bit. To think that we should implement equality by pulling people down to the mean is, frankly, insane. That does nothing to help anyone - its a stance based solely on anger and jealousy. Your polic…

[deleted]

Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#214

Post by ElijahLynn »

It's amazing how little this article names and shames. If there is no personal accountability then some people won't learn their lesson. I saw one only one name of the people responsible for this, Samuel Rotrosen, Montrose's president at the time.

And Samuel Rotrosen was only mentioned once, buried deep down many paragraphs in.

So much so that in all the comments here, I am the only one to mention the name of the person who seems ultimately responsible for this, Samuel Rotrosen.

Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#216

Post by merpnderp »

tsdlts wrote: post #55
dusted wrote: post #2

It's amazing how little some people have cared, this was not that they didn't know, they certainly knew, otherwise, it'd not have resorted to hiding the stuff by dumping it into the sea.. It'd not be unreasonable to hunt down those responsible, and make them pay for cleaning it up. Sure, they're probably dead by now, but they probably left a lot of money. I don't think it's even relevant that "it was not illegal at t…

"I don't think it's even relevant that it was not legal at the time". Imagine setting the precedent that the government can unilaterally decide to steal your property based on something your great grandfather did which wasn't even a crime. Do you not see how such a power might be abused in future when you can retroactively punish people for laws where the ink has yet to dry and that they never even committed?

The US Constitution explicitly prohibits ex post facto laws (laws after the fact). It isn't even an amendment, but so important the original document prohibited congress from criminalizing past legal behavior.

Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#217

Post by tsjq »

refurb wrote: post #16
iBotPeaches wrote: post #4

Well that was a sad article to read on a Monday morning. If this is what we've just scratched the surface on - I'm nervous to what we don't know in terms of ocean dumping.

If that depresses you, don’t look up what they dumped in the North Sea after WW2.

Made me curious. And I searched. Found this one. Yikes !

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/decaying-weapo...

Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#218

Post by asdff »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #62
happy_path wrote: post #30

Wouldn't be possible to make controlled explosions to consume submerged hazardous materials, like DDT? I know it is a drastic solution, but would it make sense?

Only if the thing is chemically consumed, otherwise you just spread it around unchanged. I don't believe DDT would be consumed in any normal explosion.

What is the solution then? Concrete case and hope it doesn't leak?

Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#219

Post by silexia »

mullen wrote: post #182
tsdlts wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't think it's even relevant that it was not legal at the time". Imagine setting the precedent that the government can unilaterally decide to steal your property based on something your great grandfather did which wasn't even a crime. Do you not see how such a power might be abused in future when you can retroactively punish people for laws where the ink has yet to dry and that they never even committed?

It's Environmental Blood money. Imagine if your grandfather or great grandfather killed people in the Concentration camps and then harvested all the gold and silver from their victims and then left that money to you? You live in wealth from others destroyed lives. This is a same thing but with the ramifications relieved later. People who knowingly dumped toxic sludge into the environment, cashed in a portion of my li…

I think your argument makes sense. It's a version of the stolen property laws... Even if you didn't know it was stolen, you have no right to keep it.
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