Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Surviving Disillusionment

spakhm.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 179 posts

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#121

Post by cambalache »

borroka wrote: post #105
cambalache wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you invented that argument in your mind and no-wonder, easily won it. Most people who get tired and disillusioned dont belong to any "Language/Framework evangelism task force". They just want some stability, substance over form, hate silly hype, hate self-proclaimed gurus, hate clueless HR managers. Give them a solid set of tools (no matter much which), sane working conditions, sane managers, a reasonable develop…

"They just want some stability, substance over form, hate silly hype, hate self-proclaimed gurus, hate clueless HR managers." - Why, following your description, my mind goes to grumpy folks who cannot understand how other people don't do and say the way they (the grumpy folks) are 100% sure they should?

Because maybe you like to think on stereotypes and lack nuance for lack of experience due to age or limited geographical mobility.

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#122

Post by axetheone »

For me, my motivations and reasons for working in tech ebbs and flows throughout the years (which I suspect is the same to majority of the people).

At first, I decided to have a degree in a STEM field in order to have in the future a dayjob that would finance my artistic/philosophical aspirations, then I started to be really interested in some specific fields and was studying/working out of mostly intelectual curiosity and now (especially due to this COVID situation) I'm again seeing it as a way to survive in this rotten late-stage capitalism era but now without almost any kind of artistic aspirations (that's the way the passage of time destroys things).

Maybe I should take up one of the examples in the TFA and just dedicate myself to run a brewery.

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#123

Post by coffeemug »

shay_ker wrote: post #8

> I've met many engineers with extraordinary talent who decided to stop making software. They wanted to program computers all their lives. They were born for it. After spending six, eight, ten years in the industry, they quit for good. Now they're running breweries and hydroponic farms, with no desire to ever again touch a compiler, let alone get back into the fray. Are these people who also made a ton of money via R…

> If they became overnight millionaires, lots of them would stop putting up with the daily drudgery.

In many specialties doctors could easily retire after 5-10 years of practice and live an extremely comfortable life, but they don't.

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#124

Post by coffeemug »

fizzyfizz wrote: post #113

I appreciate what Slava has written here. But I noticed something odd about his recommendation. He noticed that doctors can get through the bullshit because they have contact with patients. It's anecdotal of course, but it seems common in caring professions. Why else would anyone be an underpaid grade school teacher? But Slava doesn't come up with an exact parallel for programmers. He suggests studying the history of…

> Unlike doctors and grade school teachers, if programmers had more contact with end users, they'd probably get burned out faster.

Depends on the business and users, but in many cases I agree with you. But I didn't mean to extend the doctor analogy to individual people. Personally, I'm very slightly aspy. I didn't get into computers to help people, I got into it because I loved programming, science, and tech. Unlike doctors, I don't need to see my work save people's lives. I'm in it for a totally different reason.

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#125

Post by draw_down »

I think it's right and good to spend one's time in the industry, come to recognize its problems, and move on to something else. It's not a victory to spend your whole life working in tech, and it's not a loss to cut that engagement short.

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#126

Post by Smaug123 »

coffeemug wrote: post #124
fizzyfizz wrote: post #113

I appreciate what Slava has written here. But I noticed something odd about his recommendation. He noticed that doctors can get through the bullshit because they have contact with patients. It's anecdotal of course, but it seems common in caring professions. Why else would anyone be an underpaid grade school teacher? But Slava doesn't come up with an exact parallel for programmers. He suggests studying the history of…

> Unlike doctors and grade school teachers, if programmers had more contact with end users, they'd probably get burned out faster. Depends on the business and users, but in many cases I agree with you. But I didn't mean to extend the doctor analogy to individual people. Personally, I'm very slightly aspy. I didn't get into computers to help people, I got into it because I loved programming, science, and tech. Unlike…

Absolutely - in an ideal world, my software would have no users at all!

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#127

Post by krapp »

Smaug123 wrote: post #126
coffeemug wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unlike doctors and grade school teachers, if programmers had more contact with end users, they'd probably get burned out faster. Depends on the business and users, but in many cases I agree with you. But I didn't mean to extend the doctor analogy to individual people. Personally, I'm very slightly aspy. I didn't get into computers to help people, I got into it because I loved programming, science, and tech. Unlike…

Absolutely - in an ideal world, my software would have no users at all!

>Absolutely - in an ideal world, my software would have no users at all!

TIL that I live in an ideal world.

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#128

Post by chaps »

fizzyfizz wrote: post #113

I appreciate what Slava has written here. But I noticed something odd about his recommendation. He noticed that doctors can get through the bullshit because they have contact with patients. It's anecdotal of course, but it seems common in caring professions. Why else would anyone be an underpaid grade school teacher? But Slava doesn't come up with an exact parallel for programmers. He suggests studying the history of…

Try working for non-profits that understand the importance of data, automation, design work. The field has a shortage of good data folk, and the ratio of LoC:societal impact can be enough to push you through the bullshit. Just, you'll have to accept lower pay.

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#129

Post by mattgreenrocks »

jventura wrote: post #98
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #74

Disillusionment was a crucible for my career. I went through it and wouldn't have it any other way. On the other side of it you attain focus on what is valuable to you, which is singularly useful for evaluating subsequent jobs. However, the crucible for me consisted of: depression, burnout, tendonitis. It sucked. From that, I decided I'd never do webdev again, including so-called backend. The web as a medium is not w…

> I'm doing quite fine now. You got my curiosity! Can I ask you in which field are you working on?

Sure. I still do software, though more of a R&D sense. Lately I've been doing a lot of different things: compiler passes, along with all sorts of static/dynamic analysis. Lots of fun!

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#130

Post by blunte »

Self delusion and stoicism (or intense perpetual toil) are the ways to keep disillusionment out of the mind.

If one has a moment to pause and reflect on life as it seems to be, one surely must be utterly disappointed and disillusioned.

In fact, the term itself is (ironically) illustrative - disillusionment. To stop seeing the illusion. So either life is pointless and hopeless, or we are seeing some illusion that hides a completely different reality. It is impossible to prove with certainty whether this apparent existence _is_ real existence or if it is some illusion.

If in fact what we see now is all that is, then frankly everything is doomed and humanity (and all other life) is pointless. We can distract ourselves with TV, social media, politics, money or power gains, sexual conquests, or even humanitarian successes. But the logical conclusion of the current apparent reality is complete destruction, and therefore pointlessness.

Post reply on HN