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‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

theguardian.com

401–410 of 674 posts

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#401
First, the Guardian is one to talk given they've fueled and capitalized on the culture war themselves. They're not the only ones, of course. Mainstream media outlets are propaganda outlets. They all have a POV that the owner and editorial staff enforce through hiring, company culture, what they accept for print, etc.

Second, culture wars are always fought by minorities. It doesn't take a large number of people to change the status quo. This applies as much to revolutionaries (communists, Nazis, etc) as demographics (Taleb once gave the relatively innocuous example of kashrut classifications on food in the grocery store as an example of how a tiny minority can impose its sectarian norms on an agricultural industry that serves a majority that probably doesn't even know what kashrut is; he used this, I believe, to illustrate that the argument that you don't need a majority of devout, Sharia law-following Muslims for Sharia to become a realistic possibility).

Third, the current culture war is real. Even if it is led and actively propelled by a small minority, it nonetheless embroils everyone. It's difficult to give a single date of birth for the current culture war, and in some sense, the world has always been in a state of cultural war. But what people typically have in mind is the deep-cutting revolution that has been escalating since the 1960s. Like newborn fish that don't know what water is and have no memory of things past, many fail to grasp the revolution taking place. Perhaps people expect revolutions to look theatrically dramatic. But there is a culture war taking place. In the last 20 years along, we have seen changes that were unthinkable across human history.

The stakes are high and the multitudes will be led by whoever is the victor. The media are instruments of different factions in the war. Some are looking for a seat at the table when the dust has settled Other look to wage total cultural war against their opponents. Some are fighting to preserve what's left. Others seek to counteract the entire rebellion.

It may be better to call this a culture battle. I claim to know the victor of the war. I just don't know who will win the battle, or how much blood will be spilled.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well in 2016, to talk about de-industrialization would have helped the designated "outsider" candidates, despite the fact that one of those, Bernie Sanders, was not Donald Trump .

Aren't both political parties equally culpable for the destruction? A frank discussion about industrial policy would not inure to the benefit of any established political actor. It's a story of breathtaking incompetence, callousness, greed, and self-deception.

> Aren't both political parties equally culpable for the destruction?

Yes, they are, and in 2016, both political parties faced outsider candidates running surprisingly strong campaigns in their Presidential primaries on explicitly repudiating different aspects of neoliberalism, including deindustrialization.

But one of those candidates was Donald Trump, and it was much more important to point out what a rude, crude bastard he was, 24/7, than to discuss the issues of political economy raised by the outsider populists. The point was to crush them, to avoid anyone in the political sphere questioning deindustrialization and financialization.

Four years later, we know that trying to silence populism while also giving Trump, a populist, 24/7 earned-media coverage did not work. At the time, though, people expected it to work.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#403
post #350

This is not my experience in the US. Culture wars have invaded both work and family life. It's not a tiny minority, it's many, if not most, Americans. I feel sure most Americans have the same experience, but perhaps I'm an outlier?

How has this so-called culture war invaded your family life?

Not the usual culture war, but my wife and I live with my mother-in-law and after she got addicted to a certain conspiracy youtube scene she's started taking (or almost taking) increasingly drastic actions.

1. (pre-covid) asking us to cancel a family trip to her home country because her youtube channel says the police are just randomly shooting americans for being american

2. Refusing to go outside at all for months post-covid. In the first few weeks she tried to convince us not to even open the windows!

3. Having family members send us HCQ as a "just in case" even though we literally are more cautious about covid than probably 99% of households

4. Trying to convince us that she should take the HCQ as a preventative even though she goes outside the house for maybe an hour a week and takes no significant risk of exposure

Anyways, I think the easy part is avoiding discussions about politics and world events. Ultimately it matters very little to me why she thinks democrats are evil and which boogeyman she thinks secretly controls the world's finances. It becomes problematic when it leads to irrational behavior. I'm concerned what her youtube channel is going to convince her to believe or to do should Joe Biden win the election.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#404

I think the main culprit exacerbating this is the main stream media. "Vox pops" have formed part of filling air-time or column inches for a long while, but this is largely replaced now by journalists looking at Twitter and either a) using that as a stand-in for 'this is what the public think' or b) making it the story itself. Social media is no longer just "second screen" below-the-line commenting on events, it's hel…

In the US, it seems these 13% receive outsize political attention as well. I recall at the run up to the 2016 election, one of the main issues was gender and public bathroom usage. I couldn't help wondering at the time why that issue received so much attention vs. the 42,000 opioid overdose fatalities that year alone, which got virtually zero attention.

The Google trends for "black lives matter" searches peak in 2016 and 2020. The media only brings it up in election years, even though police brutality happens every year.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elite colleges relying on high school grades and letters of recommendation instead of objective blindly marked tests open to all is replacing one test with others. The others allow much more room for picking the right sort of person. That was the entire point of instituting holistic admission at prestige US universities, to keep out Jews. The modern drive to eliminate tests is in large part to keep out Asians. Nothin…

Standardized tests could also be considered a way for picking the right kind of person: namely, people who know that standardized tests are something to prepare for. I’ve tutored students at both elite and underperforming high schools. Students at elite schools, irrespective of their socioeconomic status, are highly aware of the importance of standardized tests. Some of the underperforming high schools don’t even adm…

>As for affirmative action being an effort to keep out Asians...have you been to Harvard’s campus? There are many, many Asian students there. In fact, nearly one in five students at Harvard are of Asian descent. The idea that elite schools are purposely excluding Asians is absurd on its face. The people pushing the idea have an axe to grind and it usually isn’t actually in the interest of Asian-Americans.

Looks like the courts found that Harvard's admissions system did not qualify as legally discriminatory, but did nonetheless somewhat disadvantage Asian-American applicants. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/01/us/harvard-admissions-law...

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you agree that this definition is biased and we shouldn't use it?

I think it would be better if there was more understanding of what people were talking about when they said "racism". I personally think that this definition of "racism", is more useful, but it clearly causes misunderstanding. I personally don't think individual racists are that big of a deal anymore. Systemic racism is much more harmful. I even think that a little bit of the prejudice-type racism can help people ove…

> I think it would be better if there was more understanding of what people were talking about when they said "racism"

You do realize that one of the main reasons for redefining words is to cause confusion?

As in, we'll take this word with narrow meaning and then massively expand the meaning in order to fight our cause?

As in, nobody wants to be accused of being racist so if we reuse the word "racist" for something else we'll be able to manipulate the discourse?

If they actually used the words as they mean, people would realize that they're complaining about nothing.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#408
post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would be better if there was more understanding of what people were talking about when they said "racism". I personally think that this definition of "racism", is more useful, but it clearly causes misunderstanding. I personally don't think individual racists are that big of a deal anymore. Systemic racism is much more harmful. I even think that a little bit of the prejudice-type racism can help people ove…

> I think it would be better if there was more understanding of what people were talking about when they said "racism" You do realize that one of the main reasons for redefining words is to cause confusion? As in, we'll take this word with narrow meaning and then massively expand the meaning in order to fight our cause ? As in, nobody wants to be accused of being racist so if we reuse the word "racist" for something…

Well, about real things. But using the wrong words, perhaps out of frustration.

The other unfair argument is to refute a minor point and claim there's nothing left to discuss. Like you did right there.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't both political parties equally culpable for the destruction? A frank discussion about industrial policy would not inure to the benefit of any established political actor. It's a story of breathtaking incompetence, callousness, greed, and self-deception.

> Aren't both political parties equally culpable for the destruction? Yes, they are, and in 2016, both political parties faced outsider candidates running surprisingly strong campaigns in their Presidential primaries on explicitly repudiating different aspects of neoliberalism, including deindustrialization. But one of those candidates was Donald Trump, and it was much more important to point out what a rude, crude b…

Saying that a nation ought to manage its industrial capacity in a deliberate way isn't necessarily a populist position.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#410

This is not my experience in the US. Culture wars have invaded both work and family life. It's not a tiny minority, it's many, if not most, Americans. I feel sure most Americans have the same experience, but perhaps I'm an outlier?

I'm curious how culture wars have impacted your work and family life. I've lived most of my life in large metro areas, so from my perspective "culture wars" are mostly people in far away towns waving fists at us city folk. The actual impact on my life is minimal.

The way that this usually effects people's personal lifes, is when there are individuals who care way to much about abstract politics, turn it into a moral cursade, and think that if you don't agree with them on every single issue then this is some huge judgment on you as a person.

Basically, it is with us or against us mentality. Even not having an opinion on some abstract idea, means that you are therefore a perpetrator of this moral wrong.

Not caring about politics is often the worst sin that you can commit to those people, no matter what other actions you have taken in your personal life regarding them or the community.

This is less common in person, and more common with individuals who have arguments with their "friends" on Facebook and the like.

Anyone who makes a post like "If you don't agree with me on X, then unfriend me, as I don't want any people like you in my life!"

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