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Surviving Disillusionment

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31–40 of 179 posts

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#31
There was a post on HN a couple days ago about a loss of tech optimism. I've been searching for a bit and unable to find it for linking. It (and the associated comment thread) had no answers. This feels like as close as you can get to an answer.

My advice to anyone struggling with disillusionment in tech: get a job doing software at a non-tech company with a mission you care about. You'll remember that technology is in service of something. My years in entertainment are some of my favorite in my career to date.

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#32
post #8

> I've met many engineers with extraordinary talent who decided to stop making software. They wanted to program computers all their lives. They were born for it. After spending six, eight, ten years in the industry, they quit for good. Now they're running breweries and hydroponic farms, with no desire to ever again touch a compiler, let alone get back into the fray. Are these people who also made a ton of money via R…

Would they though? I think that's a shallow outlook, the importance of saving lives doesn't lessen once you become wealthy. Everyone has to watch their friends and family get old and sick eventually. Compare that to a lot of technology jobs. I think my friends and family will be fine if the schedule at Netflix slips and they have to wait a few years to watch sitcoms in 8K. (Edit: I don't mean to disparage anyone work…

How many doctors would still do the job if they got paid a middle class salary? It's pretty clear, to me at least, that very few would even bother. Veterinarians are a good comparison - there's very few, low salaries, passionate about animals, and high suicide rates due to unending debt.

Yes - some doctors end up volunteering with Doctors without Borders & similar non-profit groups. Some engineers have gotten more political as time goes on.

But if the money isn't there, doctors will definitely not be there either.

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#33
Much to the chagrin of many of my fellow career programmers, I’ve always tried to operate slightly against the grain to keep things interesting. I do so not gratuitously, but because I know I’m in this profession for the marathon, and so I need to compromise instantaneous velocity to maintain {energy, sanity, motivation, ...}. I get made fun of and occasionally lambasted for it, but I also frequently outpace my organizationally distant colleagues before they say ‘screw it’ and hope their next job will be more fulfilling.

I’ve been an adamant user of Common Lisp in the workplace, and I strive to carve out an environment for my fellow peers which allows them to reasonably work toward making creatively simple solutions to complex problems. Despite the continual pressure to (re)write in {C++, C#, Java} and now {Rust, Julia, Python}, my choice continues to pay dividends to myself, my colleagues, and most the organizations I’ve worked for. You can get away with it if you both deliver and manage healthy short-term and long-term expectations.

As an engineering manager, I would hold little computer science challenges every Monday morning. 45 mins to think about the problem and code a solution, and 15 minutes of “lecturing” by either myself or somebody who solved the problem. It took a lot of work each Sunday night to concoct a good problem.

Engineers invariably fell into two camps. The first were folks who didn’t want to participate because “this isn’t my job nor what I’m paid to do”, and the second were folks who reveled in the challenges, as if they were a paradise-like escape from the more mundane aspects of day-to-day coding. It would stir up conversation for the week and occasionally inspire participants to imbue the skills they learned into day-to-day coding. One of my proudest achievements was a coding challenge on combinators, which opened a big window of fresh air to individuals who didn’t understand closures or high-order functions. Lo and behold, they adopted the practice of using them to simplify some production Python.

It wasn’t compulsory so if people wanted to log into JIRA and toil away first thing Monday morning, they could. But if you felt stimulation from learning new things that may or may not actually tangibly help you, the exercises contributed a positive environment, a positive collegial interaction, and a positive following work week.

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#35
The reason I got into tech/coding as a teen was the diy punk rock ethos. I remember spending weeks trying to figuring out if I could break drm in the latest video game ('tricking' starforce in splinter cell 3 was such a cool thing). Then I moved on to academia where I felt the ethos extended. Academia was life consuming and by the end I just had to leave.

Now that I'm job hunting post-phd, I'm trying to rekindle that excitement in something...and I don't feel it. Grinding leetcode or memorizing some companies 'leadership principles' has been the antithesis of creativity. Everything feels like marketing. I wish I had kept up with old friends instead of spending my weekends in the office.

Funny enough, I've been brewing beer/kombucha and cheesemaking as a distraction.

I guess I'm getting older?

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#36

Much to the chagrin of many of my fellow career programmers, I’ve always tried to operate slightly against the grain to keep things interesting. I do so not gratuitously, but because I know I’m in this profession for the marathon, and so I need to compromise instantaneous velocity to maintain {energy, sanity, motivation, ...}. I get made fun of and occasionally lambasted for it, but I also frequently outpace my organ…

This is wonderful, thank you for sharing it. Were there any obvious differences between the two camps in terms of performance, career satisfaction, tenure at the company, etc?

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#37
I think the author misdiagnosed the problem. It's not Corporate that's the real problem, it's the fact that what you're working on is probably just not that interesting. Plus the fact that you have to keep slugging away with it whether you like it or not. No-one gets excited about writing accounts packages.

It reminds me of an anecdote a pro photographer gave to someone thinking of entering the field: if you love photography, really love it, then don't do it professionally.

Be an amateur. Fun fact: the word "amateur" derives from Latin "amatorem", meaning "lover, friend".

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would they though? I think that's a shallow outlook, the importance of saving lives doesn't lessen once you become wealthy. Everyone has to watch their friends and family get old and sick eventually. Compare that to a lot of technology jobs. I think my friends and family will be fine if the schedule at Netflix slips and they have to wait a few years to watch sitcoms in 8K. (Edit: I don't mean to disparage anyone work…

How many doctors would still do the job if they got paid a middle class salary? It's pretty clear, to me at least, that very few would even bother. Veterinarians are a good comparison - there's very few, low salaries, passionate about animals, and high suicide rates due to unending debt. Yes - some doctors end up volunteering with Doctors without Borders & similar non-profit groups. Some engineers have gotten more po…

the doctors I know make less money than the programmers I know

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#39

I think this suffices as a summary, "The other reality is the frustration and drudgery of operating in a world of corporate politics, bureaucracy, envy and greed— a world so depressing, that many people quit in frustration, never to come back." Some of us just aren't cut out to work in a big corporate environment. From what I've seen, large technical companies are made up of two sets, the technical set and the manage…

"Some people aren't cut out for it" explains nothing and is an unfalsifiable statement. It's simply restating what's happening, but in a way that removes empathy.

As someone with 10 years of management experience at big corporations, I encourage you to consider the possibility that managers are not valued more and this attitude, itself, is evidence of the beginnings corporate burnout.

Re: Surviving Disillusionment

#40
post #36

Much to the chagrin of many of my fellow career programmers, I’ve always tried to operate slightly against the grain to keep things interesting. I do so not gratuitously, but because I know I’m in this profession for the marathon, and so I need to compromise instantaneous velocity to maintain {energy, sanity, motivation, ...}. I get made fun of and occasionally lambasted for it, but I also frequently outpace my organ…

This is wonderful, thank you for sharing it. Were there any obvious differences between the two camps in terms of performance, career satisfaction, tenure at the company, etc?

The sample size is about N=18 for the anecdote so it’s hardly definitive. The ones who didn’t engage typically left after 12 months, maybe 24 tops. It’s not a perfect indicator. Some people in the morning are stellar performers but also want to sit and enjoy a cup of coffee and read the news instead of grinding out computer-realizations of discrete path integrals or whatever other Monday morning shenanigans.
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