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‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#251

Post by cabraca »

jcranmer wrote: post #222
cabraca wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But to intentionally disadvantage a minority group is to discriminate against that minority group. I would argue that depends on the intent. Do i put them in a disadvantage because they are part of that group or because a large part of that group wouldn't fit the requirements i have. Lets say i'm looking for someone doing voiceover. Someone without an accent. That would probably put a lot of non-native english spea…

> Someone without an accent. Everyone has an accent. When you say "without an accent," what you mean is that you are looking for someone with a particular accent that is meant to be free of features that identify someone as coming from a particular region. In a way, it's discriminatory, because you're saying that people who do not speak your preferred dialect are not speaking "proper" English. Even if they grew up sp…

>Everyone has an accent. When you say "without an accent," what you mean is that you are looking for someone with a particular accent that is meant to be free of features that identify someone as coming from a particular region.

Thats what an accent is, yes. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/accent

> In a way, it's discriminatory, because you're saying that people who do not speak your preferred dialect are not speaking "proper" English. Even if they grew up speaking English their entire life.

thats not what i said/wrote. Thats how you interpret it.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#252

Post by Junk_Collector »

Miner49er wrote: post #138
cabraca wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know those diversity sessions... They claim everyone who is white or passing as white is racist. I had to "confess" that i'm racist and promise to do better or it would have consequences for my career. Sidenote: I volunteer at a refugee center and took in a syrian family. Literally hitler, i know. A colleague got fired because he wouldn't confess and left the session. So even if that Dean said he is a racist, he's…

Well that's the thing. These diversity training people do use a different definition of racism then what you are thinking of. The diversity training definition of racism doesn't simply mean prejudiced, it means a part of a system of power that benefits people considered "white" at the expense of others. By that definition, most white people are probably "racist". If you understand the context used when they call them…

The common definition of racism is (from Webster but also colloquially):

"A belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"

By broadly redefining racism in a way that removes individual agency you can declare anyone you want as racist. Then you can conveniently and selectively conflate it with the common definition to produce individual responsibility. It's a huckster tactic it's how you get things like

"I will say, I think it's strange they are asking them to admit to being racist, and "be better". It's a systemic thing, so it requires systemic change. Asking them to say they are racist and that they need to be better seems unneededly divisive."

By ensuring that the target they want is inherently racist and also individually responsible but with no possible power to change this, you can ensure an endless need for racism seminars and donations to assuage inherited guilt.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#253

Post by toyg »

offtop5 wrote: post #240

This is why it's impossible to have a nuance discussion online. The vast majority of people who heavily use social media, are much more likely to have much stronger beliefs one way or another than people who don't. I even have a theory much of this is driven by social isolation, mostly young men with nothing better to do. So these young men go on tirades about how the Last of Us Two is a feminist plot to destroy masc…

Way to overgeneralize. Women go on tirades too.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#254

Post by ciarannolan »

dugmartin wrote: post #239
clydethefrog wrote: post #225

Reminds me of the research NPR did before closing their comments section. >In July, NPR.org recorded nearly 33 million unique users, and 491,000 comments. But those comments came from just 19,400 commenters, Montgomery said. That's 0.06 percent of users who are commenting, a number that has stayed steady through 2016. https://www.npr.org/sections/publiceditor/2016/08/17/4895169...

That pretty well matches the 90-9-1 rule: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/participation-inequality/

I wonder if dang or others could comment on whether this is true of HN too.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#255

Post by mmastrac »

another-dave wrote: post #56

I think the main culprit exacerbating this is the main stream media. "Vox pops" have formed part of filling air-time or column inches for a long while, but this is largely replaced now by journalists looking at Twitter and either a) using that as a stand-in for 'this is what the public think' or b) making it the story itself. Social media is no longer just "second screen" below-the-line commenting on events, it's hel…

This is nothing new. Journalists were cribbing from blogs and Reddit before social media, and from usenet before then (although the latter to a lesser degree).

Agree with your statement of this being a symptom of trimmed budgets and the 24hr news cycle. The push for free news on the internet may have also contributed.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#256

Post by [deleted] »

barry-cotter wrote: post #121
charlesu wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine, the University of Chicago, Wake Forest, and almost all of the elite liberal arts colleges (Williams College, Swarthmore College, Bowdoin College, etc) are test optional or test free and no worse for it. Standardized tests are one measure of academic merit and not even the best one. There are plenty of 1500s reporting to 1250s.

Elite colleges relying on high school grades and letters of recommendation instead of objective blindly marked tests open to all is replacing one test with others. The others allow much more room for picking the right sort of person. That was the entire point of instituting holistic admission at prestige US universities, to keep out Jews. The modern drive to eliminate tests is in large part to keep out Asians. Nothin…

[deleted]

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#257

Post by HPsquared »

skrebbel wrote: post #244
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this unusual for online forums? It's been a rule of thumb for decades that 1-5% of users are active posters and everyone else is what used to be called a "lurker" - there to read and be informed/outraged/entertained. I'd expect the same for politics. Of course politics affects everyone personally in all kinds of ways, but most of the population just isn't that interested.

1-5% is very different from 0.06% though.

The 0.06% is the share of total NPR visitors, not those who read the comments sections. If we limit our sample to people who view the comments sections, it's probably closer to 1%.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#258

Post by zests »

another-dave wrote: post #56

I think the main culprit exacerbating this is the main stream media. "Vox pops" have formed part of filling air-time or column inches for a long while, but this is largely replaced now by journalists looking at Twitter and either a) using that as a stand-in for 'this is what the public think' or b) making it the story itself. Social media is no longer just "second screen" below-the-line commenting on events, it's hel…

Read the Economist or probably any "content is paid by subscriptions and not advertisements" news sources.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#259

Post by DenisM »

Miner49er wrote: post #179
Swizec wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The diversity training definition of racism doesn't simply mean prejudiced, it means a part of a system of power that benefits people considered "white" at the expense of others But then everyone is racist. Including black people. Everyone is part of this society that has systemic features tht benefit whites. So if everyone is racist, what’s the point of labeling?

I wouldn't say everyone is racist, by that definition. If you want to and are working to change or get rid of these systems, then you are not racist.

That reminds me of "war to the death" - the only way you're not the enemy of the people is if you give up everything you had actively join the fight on our side.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_of_War_to_the_Death

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