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PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

mashable.com

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Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#41

Post by ravenstine »

MattGaiser wrote: post #21
gruez wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and this will counterpart the world splitting the internet into nationally divided fragments. Perhaps, but how is this related to this story? Both epik and paypal are located in the US. If anything this points towards the internet being divided across partisan lines.

I think he is just comparing it to another way in which the internet is balkanizing.

This, but also in that I think internet balkanization, if it takes off, will only make it easier to further balkanize it into "micronations" for different ideologies, or corporate brands.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#43

Post by ceejayoz »

4bpp wrote: post #40
ceejayoz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, if you get a reputation for entering businesses and shitting on the floor, you'll find yourself banned from all of them eventually. The same is true for online businesses.

How does this analogy work? As I understand it, the reason a physical business would ban someone engaging in the behaviour you described is that it would create costly first-order work for the business (cleaning up) and result in a second-order loss of profits due to deterring other customers until the cleanup is complete. Does anything of the sort apply in the case of politically questionable entities using a near-m…

Providing services to groups like this can be a PR disaster far more revenue-impacting than having to mop a floor.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#44

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

MattGaiser wrote: post #30
ravenstine wrote: post #7

In the coming years, we may see the rise of separate economies based on political divide. I think this is where we are heading, and this will counterpart the world splitting the internet into nationally divided fragments.

Will they be significant economies though? Gab and Epik are mostly about culture wars and conspiracy theories. How many people are actively involved in those?

The history of explosive growth in tech platforms should make us very cautious about assuming small economies will stay small. It's been barely a decade since Facebook and Twitter were small platforms that didn't matter.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#45

Post by jacquesm »

kenforthewin wrote: post #35

If some of y'all put the time you spent into defending white supremacists and hate platforms in the name of free speech or independent thought instead into achieving a more just, anti-racist society we'd all be so much better off.

Seconded.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#46

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29
ceejayoz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, if you get a reputation for entering businesses and shitting on the floor, you'll find yourself banned from all of them eventually. The same is true for online businesses.

Money is speech, so says the supreme court (Citizens United). Impeding the transfer of fiat (infra which should be a utility) is a violation of constitutional rights (arguably) if you're not breaking the law. Even if I disagree with the speech (I do! Vehemently!), rights must be inalienable. Maybe this should be patched in Section 230 legislation versus 18 USC § 1960, would have to read more statute to provide a prop…

So people should be able to send money abroad to terrorism outfits? I think you are taking the "money is speech" conservative position, and stretching it to its atomic limits.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#47

Post by BitwiseFool »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29
ceejayoz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, if you get a reputation for entering businesses and shitting on the floor, you'll find yourself banned from all of them eventually. The same is true for online businesses.

Money is speech, so says the supreme court (Citizens United). Impeding the transfer of fiat (infra which should be a utility) is a violation of constitutional rights (arguably) if you're not breaking the law. Even if I disagree with the speech (I do! Vehemently!), rights must be inalienable. Maybe this should be patched in Section 230 legislation versus 18 USC § 1960, would have to read more statute to provide a prop…

There is so much shortsightedness with the modern pro-censorship crowd. Do they assume censorship will never be applied to their side because they aren't the "evil" ones?

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#48

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

patrickaljord wrote: post #8
jasonvorhe wrote: post #3

This is good news, but I suspect the "censorship cancel culture" crowd will be chiming in soon.

Well, I mean, when they were banned from twitter, people said "build your own twitter", when they built gab and got banned from credit cards processors they said "build your own financial system", when they got banned from cloudflare they were told "build your own internet backbone" etc... At which point this is not censorship when companies equivalent to public infra with big public contracts and ties to the governm…

Proud Boys and Gab not being able to do whatever is a world of difference from the plight of the Uighurs in China or Hong Kong.

Re: PayPal terminates account of Epik, home to Proud Boys domain and Gab

#50

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

kenforthewin wrote: post #35

If some of y'all put the time you spent into defending white supremacists and hate platforms in the name of free speech or independent thought instead into achieving a more just, anti-racist society we'd all be so much better off.

That's not how it works. If you don't defend the rights of even the worst to free speech, soon everyone's rights to speech will be in danger. In fact, it's these looked down upon speakers who need protection the most. No one needs the protection of the First Amendment to say things everyone agrees with.
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