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‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#181

Post by cabraca »

Miner49er wrote: post #163
dTal wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not even slightly what "racist" means, though. The accepted term for what you are describing is "privileged". If you're going to assert that every white person is "racist" regardless of their beliefs, you render the term meaningless and might as well just say "white".

Well, I said "most". I was a bit wrong. It's not just benefiting from racism that makes you racist by the definition, it's being a part of one of the systems that props up racism. Here's a definition from the ADL for systemic racism. "A combination of systems, institutions and factors that advantage white people and for people of color, cause widespread harm and disadvantages in access and opportunity. One person or…

Don't you think that the definition of racism from a organisation that profits of fighting racism is a little bit biased?

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#182

Post by jkingsbery »

Miner49er wrote: post #138
cabraca wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know those diversity sessions... They claim everyone who is white or passing as white is racist. I had to "confess" that i'm racist and promise to do better or it would have consequences for my career. Sidenote: I volunteer at a refugee center and took in a syrian family. Literally hitler, i know. A colleague got fired because he wouldn't confess and left the session. So even if that Dean said he is a racist, he's…

Well that's the thing. These diversity training people do use a different definition of racism then what you are thinking of. The diversity training definition of racism doesn't simply mean prejudiced, it means a part of a system of power that benefits people considered "white" at the expense of others. By that definition, most white people are probably "racist". If you understand the context used when they call them…

What you say might be the case - that some people are trying to take a word with certain connotations and change it's definition. If they had read more, they would see the self-parody that creates.

> 'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#183

Post by Miner49er »

cabraca wrote: post #181
Miner49er wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I said "most". I was a bit wrong. It's not just benefiting from racism that makes you racist by the definition, it's being a part of one of the systems that props up racism. Here's a definition from the ADL for systemic racism. "A combination of systems, institutions and factors that advantage white people and for people of color, cause widespread harm and disadvantages in access and opportunity. One person or…

Don't you think that the definition of racism from a organisation that profits of fighting racism is a little bit biased?

Yes, that's my entire point. They are working with a different definition then most people.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#184

Post by rmrfstar »

wombatmobile wrote: post #175
rmrfstar wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Orwell's Oceania, the inner and outer party made up around 10% of the population. Minitrue was a small subset of that apparatus, and developed such wonderful products as "the two minutes hate". It's not like we weren't warned.

Neil Postman wrote in 1985: “What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egotism." "Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley fe…

It's a great book, but that excerpt reflects a pretty shallow read of 1984.

It doesn't account for this specific example, the use of outrage as an instrument of social control.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#185

Post by throwaway2245 »

The idea that it is a culture 'war' comes out of a right-wing framing.

A (small) group of Conservative Party MPs in the UK have presented it as such and indicated that it's useful to their cause that there is a perceived enemy to unite behind, whether or not they agree with any particular policies.

e.g. https://inews.co.uk/opinion/tories-culture-war-win-back-popu...

similarly referenced from an international perspective on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war#Artificiality_or_a...

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#186

Post by jiajweiorjawejr »

wombatmobile wrote: post #175
rmrfstar wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Orwell's Oceania, the inner and outer party made up around 10% of the population. Minitrue was a small subset of that apparatus, and developed such wonderful products as "the two minutes hate". It's not like we weren't warned.

Neil Postman wrote in 1985: “What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egotism." "Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley fe…

I can't recommend the book Amusing Ourselves to Death enough, especially in our current hyper-stupid times.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#187

Post by [deleted] »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #152

Any diverse media ecosystem is going to have a wide variety of quality and stance of writings and media, the issue is: is our populace well-educated enough to contextualize and understand it? What if we levied an information fee -- any entity which dispenses information for profit must then pay into public education tax funds to enhance the discerning capabilities of the populace.

[deleted]

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#188

Post by zepto »

germinalphrase wrote: post #125
luckylion wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with many things, nuance is important. Sensitize people to larger issues is one thing, creating a cult they have to submit to is another. You can tell people about factory farms without screaming "cow rapist". You can tell people about privilege without spiraling into some racist cult. But that would probably be class privilege, which is much better at predicting success than the color of your skin.

Based on the experiences that I - and my wife - have had in trainings of this type, I am somewhat skeptical that any such “cult” exists. There were moments of discomfort, but I was never coerced or made to feel negative about myself as a white man. I have always walked away from these events with a better sense of myself (for good and bad) which I view as a positive thing.

I’m not white, and the presence of the things we call white privilege and racism is blindingly obvious to anyone who grew up like me.

However, I have also routinely seen cult-like, and racist behavior in diversity training, and frankly in anti-racist activism.

I’m glad you didn’t experience these. I also think that the work can be done in a nuanced way that avoids the pitfalls.

Unfortunately I think this is becoming less and less common as a drive to scale delivery of these kinds of trainings causes the quality to drop.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#189

Post by wheaties »

pessimizer wrote: post #178

This is "centrist" propaganda. I'm also absolutely sure you'll find that 99% cross-stitch and scrapbooking content online is posted by a tiny percentage of cross-stitchers and scrapbookers. You'll also find that radical centrists (as defined by actual political positions) are an infinitesimal group, and that the vast majority of people will report their beliefs as middle of the road no matter what the actual content.…

> Yes, when the courts stop favoring women...

Um, no. You already can hire whomever you want and for whatever reason you want. You just can't be blatantly sexist. Perhaps you need to step back and reassess your viewpoint because it reeks of scare mongering.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#190

Post by cabraca »

Miner49er wrote: post #183
cabraca wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think that the definition of racism from a organisation that profits of fighting racism is a little bit biased?

Yes, that's my entire point. They are working with a different definition then most people.

So you agree that this definition is biased and we shouldn't use it?
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