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Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

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Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#61

Post by roc »

thought_alarm wrote: post #29

I use location services on an iPod touch almost daily and without a network connection. The location cache is currently limited by size. It seems to hold about a small city's worth of wifi hotspot coordinates, which is downloaded in large blocks at a time. Reducing the size of the wifi location cache to a mere 7 days could severely reduce the usefulness of that feature. I really hope they're not killing a great featu…

When the update moves and encrypts the cache, it's really anyone's guess as to how long the history will go back.

If it's going to harm use, I don't doubt Apple would turn that 7 into a 14 or a 30 without batting an eye.

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#62

Post by MatthewPhillips »

yalogin wrote: post #9

This is a perfectly reasonable explanation. I have seen this more and more lately, the standard reaction to anything Apple in the tech community is pitchforks. I have a feeling subconsciously we all want Apple to fail at something and try to latch on to anything remotely blamable.

I think the reaction was appropriate. It confirms the major points that people were upset about: 1) that the data is stored unencrypted, 2) that it lives even after you turn off location services, 3) that it was taken without explicit permission.

This press release doesn't change any of those points, it merely places the blame on bugs (which wouldn't have been patched had the story not been uncovered).

Isn't this comparable to the Google/Buzz fiasco, which was met with similar (deserved) scorn?

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#65

Post by dhechols »

cooldeal wrote: post #36
yalogin wrote: post #9

This is a perfectly reasonable explanation. I have seen this more and more lately, the standard reaction to anything Apple in the tech community is pitchforks. I have a feeling subconsciously we all want Apple to fail at something and try to latch on to anything remotely blamable.

>I have seen this more and more lately, the standard reaction to anything Apple in the tech community is pitchforks. I have a feeling subconsciously we all want Apple to fail at something and try to latch on to anything remotely blamable. I think that's a counter reaction to a whole bunch of people who think Apple can do no wrong at all.

Exactly, but I think it's rational. Software is hard, damn hard to get right -- even if you get the math side correct, there's always UX to damn your product. It's only reasonable that a company that gets so many things _right_ is both so loved by some, and expectant to fail by others.

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#66

Post by lukeschlather »

fredoliveira wrote: post #39
ajdecon wrote: post #13

Sometime in the next few weeks Apple will release a free iOS software update that: - reduces the size of the crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower database cached on the iPhone, - ceases backing up this cache, and - deletes this cache entirely when Location Services is turned off. Looks reasonable to me. The only thing missing that I'd like to see is an option to opt out of the tracking data (anonymous or not).

See, but that would be crazy. If what they're saying is true (and there's no reason to doubt it at this point), they're using this in order to provide you with a service: the ability for your phone to know where you are in your city. Calling it "tracking data" is wrong, even. Given their description of how the cell tower/hotspot data is used, it seems like deleting "this cache entirely when Location Services is turne…

>Calling it "tracking data" is wrong, even.

I wish people would stop saying this. Of course it's tracking data. There's nothing wrong with that. One of the phone's features is tracking your location so you don't get lost.

Personally I think Apple has overreacted. They just need to provide a configuration setting for the size of the cache, and more importantly not include it in backups. A cache is not important enough to back up. But as far as the size of the cache, the defaults sound sane enough.

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#67

Post by roc »

cooldeal wrote: post #36
yalogin wrote: post #9

This is a perfectly reasonable explanation. I have seen this more and more lately, the standard reaction to anything Apple in the tech community is pitchforks. I have a feeling subconsciously we all want Apple to fail at something and try to latch on to anything remotely blamable.

>I have seen this more and more lately, the standard reaction to anything Apple in the tech community is pitchforks. I have a feeling subconsciously we all want Apple to fail at something and try to latch on to anything remotely blamable. I think that's a counter reaction to a whole bunch of people who think Apple can do no wrong at all.

Funny how those people always come up in conversation, but we never seem to catch them in the act.

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#68

Post by ja2ke »

pieter wrote: post #26
jkahn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not flippant at all. Law enforcement can track where you are through your telco even if you don't have a fancy phone. And they can do it live.

That probably only works for local telco's. With Apple's info, US agencies can track anyone with an iPhone in the world, even if the telco's there don't want to cooperate.

... After they physically seize your phone or home PC, to read this only-locally-stored file, of course.

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#69

Post by stitchy »

Xuzz wrote: post #59
stitchy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even so, the data should not be stored in a plain text file. Doing so gives any iPhone application access to that location data. Apple claims that it manages location preferences by application, but that's not true as long as this file exists in a plain text format.

That is incorrect. The iPhone employs sandboxing, so most areas of the filesystem are not accessible to iOS applications, and this cache is in one of those restricted locations. An app on the phone cannot read this information. However, it is included in the iTunes backups. Those can be read -- but only on your computer, not on the iPhone itself. (An exception to the above would be a jailbroken phone: the packages in…

I was unaware of that. Good to know. I still think it's an issue; although, one that Apple is apparently resolving in the next major release.

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#70

Post by boredguy8 »

tjogin wrote: post #42

8. What other location data is Apple collecting from the iPhone besides crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data? Apple is now collecting anonymous traffic data to build a crowd-sourced traffic database with the goal of providing iPhone users an improved traffic service in the next couple of years. Interesting. Apple generally does not pre-release information about upcoming products, at all. They must have fel…

For getting angry at Android privacy, Jobs certainly seems to be missing out on the fact that this isn't an opt-in service, whereas it is in Google. http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/08/bright-side-of-sittin... Apple is GOING to get your traffic data, whether you want them to or not. With Google, I have the option.
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