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Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

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Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#31

Post by diminish »

sounddust wrote: post #16

I often travel internationally (with no data roaming) and I've noticed that the iPhone's A-GPS is incapable of determining my location when I arrive in a new place, even if I've pre-loaded my route/maps in the maps application prior to arrival. But once I've connected to the internet - even for a few seconds - my phone is permanently able to track itself in that city, even after I've left and returned months later. I…

your need is too exotic and mainstream concerns about location/timestamp tracking on iphone are real, valid concerns.

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#32

Post by pieter »

ugh wrote: post #18
pieter wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They receive your IP address because that's how IP works; otherwise they wouldn't have an address to send data back (and IP packets with a spoofed source IP are dropped immediately). They might not do anything with it, but they definitely have access to it.

Sure, that's why they say "anonymous". If they do not delete the IP address as soon as technically possible they are lying about the anonymous part. This is not about ability. This is about trust. They say the data is anonymous which means they are obligated to disregard the IP address and to not log it anywhere.

"This is not about ability"

Sure it is. That's exactly what the following statement means: "Apple cannot identify the source of this data". How can you interpret that as anything else but their ability of identifying the source?

The statement is obviously not true; if they were forced to, by a government agency for example, to track the location information from a user from that point on they COULD; saying they can't is wrong IMHO.

The correct thing to say here is that they can, but they don't, unless forced to. But I guess that isn't the message Apple wants to communicate.

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#33

Post by cooldeal »

foobarbazetc wrote: post #20

Oh no, reasonable and accurate information. Plus a list of things they plan to do to fix it. What will we all hate on Apple about next?

So you think the people who were reporting on these issues and caused Apple to fix them did it to hate on Apple? Tthe issues were real and not made up because Apple is now fixing them. Would they have fixed it if every reporter acted like Gruber? Why do some people take it as a personal insult if people point out that Apple can ship buggy software?

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#34

Post by seabee »

pieter wrote: post #27
pilif wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well. If you are near an access point apple knows about or just by geolocating your IP address, the iPhone can still download datapoints from that central database that allow it to quickly locate you. That file on the iphone is just a local copy of the relevant parts of the central database. Sure. It might be 10 seconds instead of one second now, but that's a reasonable tradeoff compared to the huge log it currently…

Point is that he's turning roaming off, and probably doesn't have access to WiFi in the foreign city. By having the database, you don't need a data connection at all, thus saving money.

He had to connect to the internet in the foreign city at least once before. The difference is now it must be every time.

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#36

Post by cooldeal »

yalogin wrote: post #9

This is a perfectly reasonable explanation. I have seen this more and more lately, the standard reaction to anything Apple in the tech community is pitchforks. I have a feeling subconsciously we all want Apple to fail at something and try to latch on to anything remotely blamable.

>I have seen this more and more lately, the standard reaction to anything Apple in the tech community is pitchforks. I have a feeling subconsciously we all want Apple to fail at something and try to latch on to anything remotely blamable.

I think that's a counter reaction to a whole bunch of people who think Apple can do no wrong at all.

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#37

Post by schrototo »

ajdecon wrote: post #13

Sometime in the next few weeks Apple will release a free iOS software update that: - reduces the size of the crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower database cached on the iPhone, - ceases backing up this cache, and - deletes this cache entirely when Location Services is turned off. Looks reasonable to me. The only thing missing that I'd like to see is an option to opt out of the tracking data (anonymous or not).

Hm, although an opt-out option might seem a reasonable request, Apple has to draw a line somewhere. If you want to have fast and accurate positioning, you have to provide them with your anonymous tracking data. That's the tradeoff, which I think is also reasonable to most people.

(I wish Apple would take that same stance with regard to crash logs. If you want stuff from the App Store, you have to let iTunes send your crash logs to the developers, without having to ask for permission first. There really is no good reason why anyone would need to opt-out of that.)

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#39

Post by fredoliveira »

ajdecon wrote: post #13

Sometime in the next few weeks Apple will release a free iOS software update that: - reduces the size of the crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower database cached on the iPhone, - ceases backing up this cache, and - deletes this cache entirely when Location Services is turned off. Looks reasonable to me. The only thing missing that I'd like to see is an option to opt out of the tracking data (anonymous or not).

See, but that would be crazy. If what they're saying is true (and there's no reason to doubt it at this point), they're using this in order to provide you with a service: the ability for your phone to know where you are in your city. Calling it "tracking data" is wrong, even.

Given their description of how the cell tower/hotspot data is used, it seems like deleting "this cache entirely when Location Services is turned off" is the opt-out you are looking for.

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