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L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

latimes.com

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Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#11

Post by sokoloff »

dusted wrote: post #2

It's amazing how little some people have cared, this was not that they didn't know, they certainly knew, otherwise, it'd not have resorted to hiding the stuff by dumping it into the sea.. It'd not be unreasonable to hunt down those responsible, and make them pay for cleaning it up. Sure, they're probably dead by now, but they probably left a lot of money. I don't think it's even relevant that "it was not illegal at t…

He didn’t, but suppose my grandfather legally (or even semi-legally) disposed of some DDT and left my father some money. My father later me some money. What’s the legal process to claw some of that money back to pay for the cleanup? Do you or the state have standing to sue me for something I never did, knew nothing about, and can’t reasonably answer to any specifics about?

Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#12

Post by fogihujy »

1propionyl wrote: post #7
refurb wrote: post #3

I’d probably be more worried about the nerve gas and mustard gas munitions dumped into the ocean after WW2. Far more toxic.

I wouldn't. Neither mustard nor sarin gas is nearly as resilient to breakdown as DDT. They break down at a much faster rate and ought not to undergo such extreme bioaccumulation.

Fishermen still end up with the stuff in their nets, 75 years after WWII ended and it's still quite dangerous. Sure, DDT may stay a problem further into the future, but WWII munitions are still a very current issue.

Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#13

Post by 1propionyl »

fogihujy wrote: post #12
1propionyl wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't. Neither mustard nor sarin gas is nearly as resilient to breakdown as DDT. They break down at a much faster rate and ought not to undergo such extreme bioaccumulation.

Fishermen still end up with the stuff in their nets, 75 years after WWII ended and it's still quite dangerous. Sure, DDT may stay a problem further into the future, but WWII munitions are still a very current issue.

Yes, of course. No disagreement there.

But one leaking barrel of DDT will affect an ecosystem for far longer than one leaking barrel of Sarin, and do more damage where it hurts the ecosystem the most by accumulating as it creeps up the trophic pyramid.

Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#15

Post by meed2000 »

sokoloff wrote: post #11
dusted wrote: post #2

It's amazing how little some people have cared, this was not that they didn't know, they certainly knew, otherwise, it'd not have resorted to hiding the stuff by dumping it into the sea.. It'd not be unreasonable to hunt down those responsible, and make them pay for cleaning it up. Sure, they're probably dead by now, but they probably left a lot of money. I don't think it's even relevant that "it was not illegal at t…

He didn’t, but suppose my grandfather legally (or even semi-legally) disposed of some DDT and left my father some money. My father later me some money. What’s the legal process to claw some of that money back to pay for the cleanup? Do you or the state have standing to sue me for something I never did, knew nothing about, and can’t reasonably answer to any specifics about?

Suing you to the extent of having to pay back whatever your father passed on to you, at least what's left of it would be reasonable, don't you think?

Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#16

Post by refurb »

iBotPeaches wrote: post #4

Well that was a sad article to read on a Monday morning. If this is what we've just scratched the surface on - I'm nervous to what we don't know in terms of ocean dumping.

If that depresses you, don’t look up what they dumped in the North Sea after WW2.

Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#17

Post by 1propionyl »

faitswulff wrote: post #9

> “We found actual photos of the workers at 2 in the morning dumping — not only dumping barrels off of the barges in the middle of the Santa Monica Basin,” he said, “but before they would dump the barrels, they would take a big ax or hatchet to them, and cut them open on purpose so they would sink.” Incredible.

See? This is why we don't need environmental regulations. The market will regulate itself if externalities are properly priced in!

(Just pay no mind to how those externalities might be systematically priced and how penalties might be retroactively enforced. If you do you're a freedom-hating socialist!)

Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#18

Post by LittlePeter »

I was waiting for the DDT acronym to be explained, but no. IMHO no matter how obvious an acronym may be, it should be explained, something like "DDT (D... D... T...) is highly dangerous".

Apparently: "Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane, commonly known as DDT, is a colorless, tasteless, and almost odorless crystalline chemical compound, an organochlorine."

edit: added explanation

Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#19

Post by 1propionyl »

LittlePeter wrote: post #18

I was waiting for the DDT acronym to be explained, but no. IMHO no matter how obvious an acronym may be, it should be explained, something like "DDT (D... D... T...) is highly dangerous". Apparently: "Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane, commonly known as DDT, is a colorless, tasteless, and almost odorless crystalline chemical compound, an organochlorine." edit: added explanation

Dichloro-diphenyl-trichloroethane.

DDT.

Re: L.A.'s coast was once a DDT dumping ground, but no one could see it until now

#20

Post by charlesu »

sokoloff wrote: post #11
dusted wrote: post #2

It's amazing how little some people have cared, this was not that they didn't know, they certainly knew, otherwise, it'd not have resorted to hiding the stuff by dumping it into the sea.. It'd not be unreasonable to hunt down those responsible, and make them pay for cleaning it up. Sure, they're probably dead by now, but they probably left a lot of money. I don't think it's even relevant that "it was not illegal at t…

He didn’t, but suppose my grandfather legally (or even semi-legally) disposed of some DDT and left my father some money. My father later me some money. What’s the legal process to claw some of that money back to pay for the cleanup? Do you or the state have standing to sue me for something I never did, knew nothing about, and can’t reasonably answer to any specifics about?

This is a great argument for an absurdly high estate tax. You can’t inherit ill-gotten gains if you don’t inherit anything at all!
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