‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#61

Post by jlokier » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 11:00 AM UTC

donohoe wrote: post #49

barry-cotter wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first describes a quasi-religious ritual in which all participants ritually affirm that they are unworthy sinners, racists. Those who believe get the satisfaction of publicly proclaiming their sin, signaling their superiority over the outsiders. Those who don’t believe have their faces rubbed in the fact that other people have the power to make them lie in public about who they are and what they believe. It shows…

Thats an over-reaction. The first is not religious in any sense. It appears to be an acknowledgment of the bias's we all have as humans. We all have bias's, unconscious and conscious - its part of being human. In that sense we're all 'racist' to some degree and its important to acknowledge that so as to overcome it. As far as the second example cited I think more information is missing before jumping to a conclusion.

I think there is a fair argument to be made that acknowledging bias and calling yourself racist aren't the same thing.

If you're endeavouring to acknowledge, understand and overcome biases, that isn't racism, it's anti-racism.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#62

Post by secondcoming » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 11:00 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #4

I like the More in Common Project. But it overlooks the disproportionate representation of the extremists in our institutions. This happened at my alma matter earlier this year: https://freebeacon.com/campus/northwestern-law-administrator... . They also voted to abandon entrance exams at my magnet high school: https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=4979 It’s not comforting to know that only a tiny minority of people a…

They sound like people who've been through a re-education camp.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#63

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 11:00 AM UTC

cabraca wrote: post #34

rayiner wrote: post #4

I like the More in Common Project. But it overlooks the disproportionate representation of the extremists in our institutions. This happened at my alma matter earlier this year: https://freebeacon.com/campus/northwestern-law-administrator... . They also voted to abandon entrance exams at my magnet high school: https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=4979 It’s not comforting to know that only a tiny minority of people a…

I know those diversity sessions... They claim everyone who is white or passing as white is racist. I had to "confess" that i'm racist and promise to do better or it would have consequences for my career. Sidenote: I volunteer at a refugee center and took in a syrian family. Literally hitler, i know. A colleague got fired because he wouldn't confess and left the session. So even if that Dean said he is a racist, he's…

[deleted]

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#64

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 11:01 AM UTC

donohoe wrote: post #49

barry-cotter wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first describes a quasi-religious ritual in which all participants ritually affirm that they are unworthy sinners, racists. Those who believe get the satisfaction of publicly proclaiming their sin, signaling their superiority over the outsiders. Those who don’t believe have their faces rubbed in the fact that other people have the power to make them lie in public about who they are and what they believe. It shows…

Thats an over-reaction. The first is not religious in any sense. It appears to be an acknowledgment of the bias's we all have as humans. We all have bias's, unconscious and conscious - its part of being human. In that sense we're all 'racist' to some degree and its important to acknowledge that so as to overcome it. As far as the second example cited I think more information is missing before jumping to a conclusion.

[deleted]

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#65

Post by arethuza » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 11:01 AM UTC

goatinaboat wrote: post #57

arethuza wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"don’t choose when or where or why to fight" The UK has been in a number of wars since I've been able to vote - I don't recall being asked to vote on any one of them? Or indeed the wars in question being part of the manifesto for any party at any election?

Are you asserting that the British military picks its own wars? Because that’s the quote you replied to.

I was replying to the assertion that "that is done by the “large majority”, the voters electing a government."

The government picks the wars without any reference to the voters?

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#66

Post by realusername » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 11:02 AM UTC

reedf1 wrote: post #33

pjc50 wrote: post #5

Yes. The culture war is to a great extent a US import. The US is extremely polarised, possibly uniquely so for a country with a single national language and mostly-shared ethnic background (compare Belgium, which is highly polarised but along language lines). The UK has its own natural fragmentation lines (north/south, class system, four nations, catholic/protestant) but those are not the lines on which the culture w…

As a twenty-something who grew up in Texas but has spent my adult life learning and working in the UK - I really disagree with calling any large cultural ideas as "US imports". The perception from the UK is that the US is much more polarised than it actually is - and from my perception the UK is even more polarised, but just refuses to believe it. I think this is because minority populations are so much smaller in th…

> Chinese friend shrieked at for using their phone, and my black friend who just feels like he wont ever "be british"

That's been one of the issues I encountered on my case on the time I've spent in the UK, you can spend as much time as you want there, you will never be considered like a local, you will be designated as a part of the community you supposed to belong, that's great if you like recreating the place you are coming from, not so great if you actually want to integrate.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#67

Post by kharak » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 11:02 AM UTC

donohoe wrote: post #49

barry-cotter wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first describes a quasi-religious ritual in which all participants ritually affirm that they are unworthy sinners, racists. Those who believe get the satisfaction of publicly proclaiming their sin, signaling their superiority over the outsiders. Those who don’t believe have their faces rubbed in the fact that other people have the power to make them lie in public about who they are and what they believe. It shows…

Thats an over-reaction. The first is not religious in any sense. It appears to be an acknowledgment of the bias's we all have as humans. We all have bias's, unconscious and conscious - its part of being human. In that sense we're all 'racist' to some degree and its important to acknowledge that so as to overcome it. As far as the second example cited I think more information is missing before jumping to a conclusion.

It is completely baffling that anyone could not see the cult characteristic of a ritual where you're required to tell everyone around you that you are inherintly guilty.

Seriously? What else do you need? Proclamation of the believe in unseen powers?

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#68

Post by germinalphrase » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 11:03 AM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #36

charlesu wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the first link, some administrators took part in an anti-racism training and in the second a school got rid of an entrance exam. What’s extreme about either of those things?

The first describes a quasi-religious ritual in which all participants ritually affirm that they are unworthy sinners, racists. Those who believe get the satisfaction of publicly proclaiming their sin, signaling their superiority over the outsiders. Those who don’t believe have their faces rubbed in the fact that other people have the power to make them lie in public about who they are and what they believe. It shows…

On the first, you’re overreacting. I’ve gone through such training and it was nothing like you describe.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#69

Post by totetsu » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 11:03 AM UTC

You know I don't recall hearing the term "culture war" when I was studying critical theory and culture and media and so on at university last decade.. I heard about hegemony, and how theories of cultural transmission have changed over time.. I heard of Edward Said and his The Myth of the “Clash of Civilizations”, I heard of Virilio's "Pure War" of technology vs humanity... but I can't recall any discussion of a culture war.. which leads me to suspect that this phrase is actually just made up by a group of people who want to bring the ideas of violent struggle into their discourse about who the world ought to be.. and journalist have unwittingly picked up the phrase and reified it(another nifty media studies word). There aren't two side to a culture war, there isn't any war. from what I've heard of fascist ideology, and how it glorifies violence and war, it's not surprising that the phrase would arise.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#70

Post by jl6 » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 11:03 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #27

pjc50 wrote: post #5

Yes. The culture war is to a great extent a US import. The US is extremely polarised, possibly uniquely so for a country with a single national language and mostly-shared ethnic background (compare Belgium, which is highly polarised but along language lines). The UK has its own natural fragmentation lines (north/south, class system, four nations, catholic/protestant) but those are not the lines on which the culture w…

I’m not saying talk Radio and Fox News aren’t part of the problem, but blaming that alone for the polarization is short-sighted. A huge part of our polarization is due to our Supreme Court resolving social disputes before society has reached a consensus. Folks in Europe often don’t appreciate how different American constitutional law is on social issues compared to European norms: The UK makes teaching religion manda…

“ [England] makes teaching religion mandatory in public schools”

Just to add some nuance to this...

RE is the lesson in which pupils are taught about religion. It does not instruct that any particular religious claim is true or false.

And the “daily act of collective worship” is one of those laws that is widely disregarded, to the point where OFSTED inspections will note that schools are not compliant but not mark them down for it. It’s rapidly becoming one of those archaic laws like “the queen owns all the swans” which has very little practical effect on everyday life.