I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers • Hacker News Board

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#441

Post by onli » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 6:34 AM UTC

Accujack wrote: post #371

ben-schaaf wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your fans are noisy buy better fans. We had some corsair fans that came with the AIO at work, replaced them with noctuas and the computer went from mildly annoying to dead silent. Though with water cooling you might also have a lot of pump noise, especially if the radiator is mounted incorrectly.

If your fans are noisy, buy BIGGER fans. The larger the diameter of a fan, the lower the RPM it can spin at to move the same amount of air (same cooling capacity) as a small fan. Provided you can put the air where it's needed (e.g. a 1 foot fan can't "focus" air onto a 6 inch radiator) a larger fan will just about always be quieter and more efficient. Oh, and having a water cooled PC with the radiator and fan inside…

Your parent commenter is talking about AIOs, which are premade water cooling systems. Fixed radiator, hard connected to a pump. Nothing you can route out of your PC.

And historically, bigger case fans have been problematic, those 200mm fans they tried to introduce some years ago. Bad static pressure if I recall correctly?

Also, I wouldn't call having a radiator and fan inside the PC silly. The case eats a lot of the noise already, it's the easy and the common setup, and good AIOs are quiet and cool well. But maybe you just wanted to share a cool big water cooling setup with everything noisy routed into the basement ;)

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#442

Post by csomar » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 6:35 AM UTC

geocrasher wrote: post #5

From the article: "What worries me as much as the end of general-purpose computing for the masses is that so few seem to understand that it is ending." Correction: Has Ended. The vast majority of people using computers has shifted to phones and tablets. I have a friend who's a millenial who barely knows how to use his desktop PC (It's a Mac) but is fluent on his iPad/iPhone. Most people are not content creators, they…

> There's no profit in building custom PC's anymore, so local computer shops aren't selling them (And if they are, it's at a hefty premium).

Most (all) shops I have seen will sell you custom PCs for the price of the components. Unless you are talking about Entreprise ones (not sure if they do exist), most of these cater for gamers who are price-sensitive. But the components are the same, and you can pick an aluminum case instead of the RGB ones.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#443

Post by ithkuil » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 6:40 AM UTC

cgriswald wrote: post #170

sokoloff wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not GP, but I travel a lot for work (last 7 months notwithstanding). When I’m home and docked, I have a 9/10 experience compared to my personal desktop. When I travel, I have a 1/2 as good experience as compared to when docked but 100% better experience than my desktop would give.

I think what confuses me about the GGP is that at some point don't you just get both a desktop and a laptop rather than trying to turn a super-laptop into an on-par desktop?

When I disconnect my laptop to work from another location I have all my open files in the same place, all my shells alive and ready to re- ssue their last commands without fiddling with a large history file.

I organized my windows and tabs and splits in such a way that it degrades gracefully when I switch from the external monitor and back.

How often often do I really need that? Not often, but when I do it's really useful.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#444

Post by ibotty » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 6:43 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #16

I prefer a desktop because: 1. I like big, big monitors. 2. I prefer a full size keyboard. 3. I prefer a separate mouse. 4. I prefer big freaking disk drives installed. 5. I put the desktop under my desk, and with a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse, there is much less of a snarl on my desk. 6. The desktop has an optical drive I still use. 7. The desktop has lots of USB ports and they're all in use. 8. I can repla…

> Edit: 12. My desktop doesn't have a microphone or camera, so they cannot be surreptitiously turned on remotely.

I am pretty sure your computer has a microphone, because it most likely has a speaker.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#445

Post by zhdc1 » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 6:43 AM UTC

jay_kyburz wrote: post #17

geocrasher wrote: post #5

From the article: "What worries me as much as the end of general-purpose computing for the masses is that so few seem to understand that it is ending." Correction: Has Ended. The vast majority of people using computers has shifted to phones and tablets. I have a friend who's a millenial who barely knows how to use his desktop PC (It's a Mac) but is fluent on his iPad/iPhone. Most people are not content creators, they…

I don't think "the masses" were ever interested in general-purpose computing. For them it never started. For people who actually care, I think the concerns are overblown and we'll always have access to a machine that can run open software. And yes sure, we might not be able to pay consumer prices for them, but they are not going anywhere. And sure, we might elect a fascist government which will simply ban the technol…

This is a major source of cognitive dissonance.

Before social media, the average person had little to no interest in the internet - or PCs in general - aside from email and instant messaging apps. The internet has changed, but it's 99.9% because more people are using it, and their interests and needs are best served by 'it just works'.

This change, along with progress in general, has also made life better for technical folks. General purpose computing is dead? Come on. Desktop Linux actually works. Municipal fiber is a thing. Capable enterprise hardware is available online for less than a second hand iPhone, and if you don't have a couple of hundred to spend, a VPS costs less than a hamburger.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#446

Post by onli » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 6:45 AM UTC

wyclif wrote: post #406

WalterBright wrote: post #16

I prefer a desktop because: 1. I like big, big monitors. 2. I prefer a full size keyboard. 3. I prefer a separate mouse. 4. I prefer big freaking disk drives installed. 5. I put the desktop under my desk, and with a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse, there is much less of a snarl on my desk. 6. The desktop has an optical drive I still use. 7. The desktop has lots of USB ports and they're all in use. 8. I can repla…

I don't want a gaming machine that comes with a graphics adapter that sounds like a 747 taking off Out of curiosity, what do you use instead? I'm wondering what the best options are for workstation-type desktops.

Two options: You can just get a quiet graphics card. There are a bunch of them, even high end cards, that come with good coolers. Look for example at reviews of the Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 5700 XT.

If you do not need a strong graphics card you can always just get a weak one, with less energy usage. GT 1030 for example, though that's really weak, but it's also just a 30W card.

Or depending on the processor you need you can use the integrated graphics. The AMD Apus are pretty great, Ryzen 3 3200G and Ryzen 5 3400G - and there are new 4000 versions that can be be bought in kits or OEM machines. Intel has their own weaker integrated graphics on most of their processors, even their stronger units, for just office work strong enough.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#447

Post by ashtonian » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 6:46 AM UTC

theelous3 wrote: post #193

Pretty much anyone who works for more than 1hr a day at home and doesn't do so on a big beautiful desktop has been making a mistake. (Presuming no limitations like affordability, literally can't fit a desk in their bedsit, etc.) Anyone who consciously thought desktops were a good idea to move away from in the above case made an initial, much bigger mistake. (Again presuming it was a general lifestyle choice and not s…

Mostly agree with you but MacBook pro speakers are better than most tvs builtins these days.

Also for whatever reason the desktop screen market doesn't know about retina style high ppi displays. It's a shame, same with dropping 16:10.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#448

Post by wruza » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 6:51 AM UTC

Filligree wrote: post #202

Scoundreller wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even SSDs throttle under heavy use.

Sure. The NVMe that gives you 2GB/s write may throttle to only 500 MB/s after a few seconds of writes, but-- How often is that a problem, really?

NVMe throttling from 2GB/s to 0.5GB/s is usually not thermal, it is an SLC cache exhaustion that brings a drive back to MLC/TLC packing mode. One can get samsung pro or a similar ssd and it will retain 2GB/s indefinitely. On cheaper drives, having a lot of free space (i.e. slc cache) may help. Not sure though what process can generate such sustained write bandwidth beyond few things like copying or video transcoding.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#449

Post by Talanes » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 6:53 AM UTC

klyrs wrote: post #346

balfirevic wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried that (using Windows Remote Desktop) but the latency was just high enough to be annoying. What do you use?

Well... tbh I'm still working on the build. But I don't do windows and I don't play FPS or anything where latency would be super important. I use VNC across town to my office and that's generally good enough... but we'll see. I had small hopes that "laptop as linux thin client" would have an easy PNP solution by now, but my research indicates that this still isn't the case. Definitely open to suggestions.

It's been a bit since I had a second device to try it with, but my experienced with Windows Remote Desktop have been less of a "this would be hard to game with" lag and more a "the delay in my mouse movement is making my head hurt" lag.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#450

Post by lhl » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 6:54 AM UTC

xondono wrote: post #424

toast0 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laptop cpus might be able to sustain top clocks with proper cooling, but we'll never know.

What? There’s a lot of laptops that hit their top clocks with no issues. The main problem is that doing so seriously reduces your battery duration and emits significant noise. Pick anything over the 800$ range that isn’t a macbook and you’re way more likely to hit clocks than not.

The problem isn't hitting the top clocks, but sustaining them. Only the biggest "desktop replacement" class laptops tend to be able to sustain 120W+ CPU dissipation.

Note that workstation-class (H) laptop CPUs also make compromises on performance - the Ryzen 9 4900H is 8C16T but only has 4MB L2$, 8MB L3$, and a max TDP of 54W. A desktop Ryzen 9 3950X by comparison is 16C32T and has 8MB L2$, 64MB L3$, and a 105W default TDP (and will go much higher with even basic PBO if your cooling allows). The differences on the Intel side are even starker.