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Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

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Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#311

I always find the anti-environmentalist position that pops up on HN interesting. For a technical audience, they are amazingly unaware of "Systems Thinking". Saying "MEH, there are other pollinators" is lazy thinking. Our ecosystem is a vast web of interconnections. You cannot predict how one HUGELY important species being destroyed will affect the rest of our ecosystem. Furthermore: People use honey bees for honey (…

I'll try and explain the "anti-environmentalist" position as best I can.

Consider climate change. Let's take it as given that climate change is an existental threat to humanity, and that it is caused by carbon dumped into the atmosphere by mankind. If this is true, then we need to leverage the full arsenal of technology available to us to solve the problem.

Nuclear power is a solution we have in-hand, today, to atmospheric carbon.

Of course, it comes with trade-offs. Nuclear waste is a big downside, but nuclear waste is a tiny annoyance compared to a runaway greenhouse effect.

And yet, environmentalists have, for sixty years, fought tooth-and-nail against nuclear power.

This brings me to the point: the track record of environmentalists, and the of green movement, shows that they do not care about the environment, nor do they care about solving real problems with real solutions for real people.

What they do seem to care about is money. Especially taxpayer money, because once you're in, the gravy never stops. Actually solving problems doesn't matter, as long as you look busy and get interviewed on MSNBC and NPR a lot.

The image of the envrionmentalist is of someone who will chain themselves to trees to protest their university building a new parking lot, with lots of pictures for Instagram and the news, but only until the semester break. Instead of organizing transportation and/or walkable housing for other students, thereby eliminating the demand for additional parking.

The opposition by-and-large cares very deeply about the environment. You'd be hard-pressed to find more environmentally-conscious folks than in the hunting and homesteading communities.

But they also believe, from observed behavior, that environmentalists are mostly interested in prolonging the problem while making themselves rich.

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always find the anti-environmentalist position that pops up on HN interesting. For a technical audience, they are amazingly unaware of "Systems Thinking". Saying "MEH, there are other pollinators" is lazy thinking. Our ecosystem is a vast web of interconnections. You cannot predict how one HUGELY important species being destroyed will affect the rest of our ecosystem. FWIW honeybees are not part of the native US…

Honey bees are naturalized here. They are part of the ecosystem, for better or worse. Insect populations have adapted around them. Taking them away now would be a disruption, especially if it were not planned out. For instance, if you were trying to reestablish some some native pollinator, reducing honey bee pressure might be part of that plan. Even possible a critical one. But just killing them and walking away? Tha…

Purely from an economic and argicuktural perspective, is there a way for us to simply raise honey bees in more of a ‘bubble’ that is somehow protected from the giant wasps?

I’d imagine from what I’ve read that a significant chunk of bees are already artificially produced and distributed for crops.

That plus of course combined with a general ongoing attempt at eradication of the hornets. Or at least significant population control.

Or is agriculture simply too widespread and complicated (or ‘naturally’ dependent) for such a thing?

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#313

I always find the anti-environmentalist position that pops up on HN interesting. For a technical audience, they are amazingly unaware of "Systems Thinking". Saying "MEH, there are other pollinators" is lazy thinking. Our ecosystem is a vast web of interconnections. You cannot predict how one HUGELY important species being destroyed will affect the rest of our ecosystem. Furthermore: People use honey bees for honey (…

I generally agree, but could you further define what Nature means to you? especially when you say "Nature is IRREPLACEABLE. Once it is dead it is dead forever."

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drones can’t fit through my excluders. Every so often I put a frame from the brood boxes above the excluder. Old frames or ones with lots of drone cells. I have to check back in a few days to let the drones out or they die and block the excluder. Workers try to pull them though and jam them in the holes. I’m currently using some nice American made excluders and they are really nice. They are made of wire and are quit…

Cool. I do everything really cheap - foundationless, treatment-free, no excluders, etc.

How do you manage varroa?

My method has got pretty cheap - oxalic acid is about as cheap as it gets for treatments.

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always find the anti-environmentalist position that pops up on HN interesting. For a technical audience, they are amazingly unaware of "Systems Thinking". Saying "MEH, there are other pollinators" is lazy thinking. Our ecosystem is a vast web of interconnections. You cannot predict how one HUGELY important species being destroyed will affect the rest of our ecosystem. FWIW honeybees are not part of the native US…

As an example, passion fruit has to be pollinated by hand (with swabs or special gloves) even in most of its natural range (South America) because only certain species of Uruçu bees can be pollinate it, and they have become rare

I've found wild passion fruit growing on my farm in East Texas. It had plenty of fruit growing on it.

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an example, passion fruit has to be pollinated by hand (with swabs or special gloves) even in most of its natural range (South America) because only certain species of Uruçu bees can be pollinate it, and they have become rare

I've found wild passion fruit growing on my farm in East Texas. It had plenty of fruit growing on it.

Passion fruit isn't native to the US. Are you sure it was indeed passion fruit?

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an example, passion fruit has to be pollinated by hand (with swabs or special gloves) even in most of its natural range (South America) because only certain species of Uruçu bees can be pollinate it, and they have become rare

I've found wild passion fruit growing on my farm in East Texas. It had plenty of fruit growing on it.

I did some more research and I see that there is a Passiflora species (P. incarnata) that grows in Texas, but that isn't what is generally referred to as passion fruit. P. edulis would be what the above commenter is referring to.

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#318

I always find the anti-environmentalist position that pops up on HN interesting. For a technical audience, they are amazingly unaware of "Systems Thinking". Saying "MEH, there are other pollinators" is lazy thinking. Our ecosystem is a vast web of interconnections. You cannot predict how one HUGELY important species being destroyed will affect the rest of our ecosystem. Furthermore: People use honey bees for honey (…

> I always find the anti-environmentalist position that pops up on HN interesting. For a technical audience, they are amazingly unaware of "Systems Thinking". Saying "MEH, there are other pollinators" is lazy thinking. Our ecosystem is a vast web of interconnections. You cannot predict how one HUGELY important species being destroyed will affect the rest of our ecosystem. FWIW honeybees are not part of the native US…

Large scale agriculture was not part of native US ecosystem either.

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#319

I always find the anti-environmentalist position that pops up on HN interesting. For a technical audience, they are amazingly unaware of "Systems Thinking". Saying "MEH, there are other pollinators" is lazy thinking. Our ecosystem is a vast web of interconnections. You cannot predict how one HUGELY important species being destroyed will affect the rest of our ecosystem. Furthermore: People use honey bees for honey (…

The problem is that people think environmentalism is about preserving the environment. The planet's gonna be fine, it's humans who are gonna have a bad time.

> The planet's gonna be fine, it's humans who are gonna have a bad time.

And the almost uncountable plants and animals that are already extinct. At least when we go the others will be able to stay.

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#320
post #265
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if technology was used to eliminate murder hornets, maybe hn would be more in favour of the practice?

Oh, absolutely. The more genetic engineering and radiation the better. With a bit of machine learning you've got a pitch deck for murder hornet removal as a service.

Shut up and take my money!
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