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Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

taibbi.substack.com

241–250 of 596 posts

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just some users though, and I'm 99% sure they don't want others to see it, because they believe knowing about it might damage their political side. I'm sure they have good intentions and believe that the end justifies the means and if suppression of truth is required to let the good guys win, then so be it. Of course, everybody generally thinks they are the good guys, and once you're going down the road of "ev…

It’s not the truth though as far as we can tell.

The one comment in this thread making an utterly factual statement is downvoted.

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#242

Drivel. No sensible person believes blocking QAnon nonsense is a "scandal." For many reasons, not the least being that it is also the very definition of "unsubstantiated" as is this Hunter Biden story. Applying editorial standards (finally) to some of the more outrageous content posted on social media platforms is no more controversial than that of print media's choice to do so. The term "social media" is a complete…

> Drivel. No sensible person believes blocking QAnon nonsense is a "scandal.

The fact that you conflate QAnon with this story indicates an extremely myopic and unrefined understanding of the world. This story was first published by the NY Post, not by someone on 8chan. These are completely unconnected things in terms of which communities are the source of this story.

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#243

> Both the government and private companies can censor stuff. But private companies are a little bit scarier. They have no constitution to answer to. They’re not elected. They have no constituents or voters. All of the protections we’ve built up to protect against government tyranny don’t exist for corporate tyranny. - Aaron Swartz

I guess. It’s pretty obvious who the Post answers to.

Companies ultimately have shareholders and customers they are accountable to. Even fairly awful companies like Facebook have to meet some minimal standard of conduct to keep advertisers on the platform.

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#244

> Both the government and private companies can censor stuff. But private companies are a little bit scarier. They have no constitution to answer to. They’re not elected. They have no constituents or voters. All of the protections we’ve built up to protect against government tyranny don’t exist for corporate tyranny. - Aaron Swartz

And at the same time, private companies cannot force you to use their services, or threaten you with violence or imprisonment if you refuse to follow their rules.

This is getting blurry as well, and though you are technically correct, one might have to sue or suffer damages for not following their rules:

My children’s schools requires the use of Microsoft Teams From home (and associated TOS) for them to attend class. There is also a parent WhatsApp group for urgent messages to parents. And as of the pandemic, there is also mandatory Zoom classes.

This is a public school. If I sue I could possibly avoid these - I am not even sure of that. But either way, I and my children will suffer if I don’t comply.

Microsoft. Facebook. Zoom. Coerced de facto to follow their rules; they might cancel my accounts if I don’t behave accordingly - Facebook and Google have certainly done so before.

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#245

I fear Taibbi is right, the suppression by Twitter, irrespective of the merits and veracity of NY Post's report, will now normalize all kinds of behavior by platforms of all kinds big and small. Which will then incentivize governments to take on the platforms. This also raises issues of unequal treatment - say the NY Post report was factually wrong - why pick on the NY Post only? Why not the hundreds of other "news o…

> will now normalize all kinds of behavior by platforms of all kinds big and small Slippery slope is a falacy , just like "correlation proves causation", to pick one HN somehow likes. Was there any doubt of their technical ability to delete and otherwise change content on their network in every which way? No, of course not. Was there any doubt that it would be legal? None whatsoever... Nothing has changed, except one…

> To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it-please try to believe me-unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, 'regretted,' that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures' that no 'patriotic German' could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

> How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice-'Resist the beginnings' and 'Consider the end.' But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings...

> In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, 'It's not so bad' or 'You're seeing things' or 'You're an alarmist.' And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can't prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don't know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end?

-- Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free (The Germans 1933-45)

In the past few decades, the political right served as the watchdog against governmental abuse of power (domestically), while the left was more sensitive to corporate abuses. But with the rise of big tech has come a generation of left-leaning young people willing to give the benefit of the doubt to corporations they see as by- and for- their own generation. At the same time, the right's foray into populism has ushered in a party-wide acceptance of authoritarianism (provided it is wielded against members of out-groups).

I agree with you if we were talking about a decision by HN, or Metafilter, or other small communities. But Twitter/Facebook et. al. do not feel the same. The situation feels more like a company deciding that they can ban certain literature on the grounds that they own all the land in the town [1].

So it seems to me that our watchdogs are in some sense asleep at their traditional posts. It seems to me that we have an instance of a corporation granting itself new and wide ranging powers (regardless of their benevolence) over a wide swath of public discourse. It seems to me that this ought to be resisted as a beginning, though we cannot see the ends.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh_v._Alabama

>...we have recognized that the preservation of a free society is so far dependent upon the right of each individual citizen to receive such literature as he himself might desire... can those people who live in or come to Chickasaw be denied freedom of press and religion simply because a single company has legal title to all the town? For it is the State's contention that the mere fact that all the property interests in the town are held by a single company is enough to give that company power, enforceable by a state statute, to abridge these freedoms. We do not agree that the corporation's property interests settle the question... Ownership does not always mean absolute dominion. The more an owner, for his advantage, opens up his property for use by the public in general, the more do his rights become circumscribed by the statutory and constitutional rights of those who use it.

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NY Post doesn't own the copyright to the photos it is publishing. Imagine if someone stole your laptop and published all your photos. I hope someone can step in and do to the Post what Peter Thiel did to Gawker.

My understanding is that it is Gnews that is publishing these photos, not NY Post. NY Post is publishing screenshots of emails.

Not true but I'm not going to link to prove my point.

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#247
post #237

Many are confusing "censorship" with "content moderation". The difference is very important. Censorship is when you are prevented from publishing on your own platform. Content moderation is when a platform owner choses what can be published on theirs. Twitter decided they did not want their platform used to spread what they considered to be Russian disinformation and propaganda, but they in no way prevented the NY Po…

I am always impressed when people make these kinds of absolute statements about the primacy of private property rights. Now, let's consider: * Alice should be able to choose without restriction to whom she is going to rent * Bob should be able to choose without restriction who's allowed to play golf at his club * Carlos should be able to choose without restriction to whom his bank is going to lend money etc. I am not…

Your analogy is broken. Clever to try to compare Twitter to discrimination though.

In all of the situations, the principals have broad discretion to make choices about their property. Alice can turn away people with credit problems. Bob can require a specific handicap to play. Carlos can choose to not loan money to high risk professions.

They cannot say “no black people at my apartment complex”, “no golf if you are Jewish” or “no loan if you’re gay”.

You may prefer chaos, most people do not.

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#248

> Both the government and private companies can censor stuff. But private companies are a little bit scarier. They have no constitution to answer to. They’re not elected. They have no constituents or voters. All of the protections we’ve built up to protect against government tyranny don’t exist for corporate tyranny. - Aaron Swartz

And at the same time, private companies cannot force you to use their services, or threaten you with violence or imprisonment if you refuse to follow their rules.

You have now been suspended from your Oculus for wrongthink.

My point is, it's not overt like government suppression, but pressure can be applied nonetheless.

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#249

Many are confusing "censorship" with "content moderation". The difference is very important. Censorship is when you are prevented from publishing on your own platform. Content moderation is when a platform owner choses what can be published on theirs. Twitter decided they did not want their platform used to spread what they considered to be Russian disinformation and propaganda, but they in no way prevented the NY Po…

Doh. By the same logic China (or other oppressors) is not censoring anything because people can travel to Vietnam (or Japan for that matter) and they can tell anyone what they want.

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that it is Gnews that is publishing these photos, not NY Post. NY Post is publishing screenshots of emails.

Not true but I'm not going to link to prove my point.

Oh yes, you're referring to the pictures of Hunter with a crack pipe in his mouth and things like that. You're correct. I took that to be just proof that they had the laptop. Everyone knows that Hunter has a crack addiction problem.

I think I totally forgot about that because of the censored sex tapes and nudes being published by Gnews which are way more salacious.

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