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Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

taibbi.substack.com

231–240 of 596 posts

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#231
It is incredibly obvious that most US media is biased. This includes suppression on both sides of the political spectrum. It includes both mainstream media and social networks. It isn’t just here and there. It is endemic.

It pushes mindsets and frames discussions. It precludes discussion. It is coordinated and pushed relentlessly.

You can tell when opinions suddenly shift amongst influence makers. Suddenly others get in line. Welcome to a modernized version of 1984.

Now you know that Twitter and Facebook are party to it as well. So are Fox News, New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, public broadcasting, etc...

I realized that even supposedly unbiased news was irredeemably compromised when public broadcasting barely reported on the Snowden disclosures. This was after realizing all mainstream media did not fact check the calls for the second Iraq War.

The real news just serves as a skeleton upon which the powers that be drape a narrative to further their causes.

If you can’t tell yet, both Biden and Trump are lying through their teeth.

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#232
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respect Swartz a lot, and he makes many good points. But let's not pretend that Twitter and Facebook hold information monopolies with equivalent power to the government's ability to censor. As proof, consider that we are having this conversation right now, about an article that was published and is freely, legally available online to anyone with a web browser. You can disagree with Twitter's editorial choices, but…

You missed the part where this thread was flagged by HackerNews earlier.

If it was flagged, and then became unflagged, it may have been flagged by the users of HN and then may have been unflagged by mods.

Is it then mods enhancing the freedom of expression by unflagging something, or censoring the community self-moderation? You decide!

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#233
post #99
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I always figured flagging put it in be a queue for review by a mod. Didn't know it happens automatically.

For some reason people seem to be assuming that more lately (i.e. that "flagged" means mods did it). I'm not quite sure how to correct that notion. I suppose we could hyperlink "[flagged]" to an explanation...but would people click? It's not as if this isn't in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html . Explanations don't seem to help much.

"user flagged" and "mod removed" might be clarifying, on stories.

For comments that may be overly verbose.

The distinction really isn't transparent.

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respect Swartz a lot, and he makes many good points. But let's not pretend that Twitter and Facebook hold information monopolies with equivalent power to the government's ability to censor. As proof, consider that we are having this conversation right now, about an article that was published and is freely, legally available online to anyone with a web browser. You can disagree with Twitter's editorial choices, but…

The lines get blurry when there is a revolving door between Silicon Valley tech companies and DC. Recent example from the banning of Bret Weinstein from Facebook: https://twitter.com/Liz_Shepherd/status/1319451084859953154?... This is a Facebook communications person responding with an official reply to this incident. She describes herself as "Facebook comms, formerly @TheDemocrats and @SpeakerPelosi". This is an exa…

"Power leakage" is inevitable. Everyone has political opinions. Most cops are Republicans. That alone doesn't mean that they're incapable of doing their job competently.

What you're doing amounts to an ad hominem attack: you're criticizing the person delivering the message, rather than the message itself.

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would consider retractions a mark of respectability, and the failure to issue them a tacit admission of failure in accountability.

A sign of respect, but the NYpost was never given that option and immediately went into suppression, and it did not turn out to be false information. Meanwhile, CNN and NYTIMES post content and retract it in higher amounts, and they never were surpressed, locked out of their account or even had twitter force to fix "itself" by now agreeing that they'd "wouldn't" remove content but now just "flag it." That, is not res…

A story that contains the claim “someone who didn’t leave their name dropped a random laptop off at a store and we’re going to pretend it was Hunter Biden without evidence” can’t ‘turn out to be false’ because there’s no assertion there to begin with. It’s like claiming that an unsigned int set to zero hasn’t gotten any smaller.

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#236
post #7

At what point do we look to capitalism as a driving factor for misinformation spreading? Media outlets are incentivized to bring in clicks/shares/likes. They're not incentivized to research stories sufficiently, so...a shaky lead from a sketchy source but a super compelling headline? Of course that gets published. Taking this as some anti-conservative war from the tech industry is super misleading.

This isn't capitalism, this is an outlet with connections to a the current regime trying to come up with ways to protect that regime, while intermediaries with deep connections to the previous regime try to blunt the effectiveness of that outlet to aid in restoring that previous regime. Nobody cares about the clicks on this article, and no one is taking a moral stance.

Capitalism is trash, but this is traditional kleptocracy. Both sides are conservative; one is literally running to "restore normality."

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#237

Many are confusing "censorship" with "content moderation". The difference is very important. Censorship is when you are prevented from publishing on your own platform. Content moderation is when a platform owner choses what can be published on theirs. Twitter decided they did not want their platform used to spread what they considered to be Russian disinformation and propaganda, but they in no way prevented the NY Po…

I am always impressed when people make these kinds of absolute statements about the primacy of private property rights.

Now, let's consider:

* Alice should be able to choose without restriction to whom she is going to rent

* Bob should be able to choose without restriction who's allowed to play golf at his club

* Carlos should be able to choose without restriction to whom his bank is going to lend money

etc.

I am not saying I agree with those statements. I am saying when you say "Twitter is a private company. They can choose without restriction who's allowed to use their platform," you are not saying anything substantively different than those statements.

In a universe where the ability to put your speech in front of other people depends on being able to post it online in a place where they might be able to see, there are trade-offs involved that seem to be conveniently shoved aside when it is about news you do not like.

I prefer the cacophonous chaos of everyone being able to tell me about stuff they deem important. One step further, I prefer to live a society that can learn to live with that without falling apart.

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lines get blurry when there is a revolving door between Silicon Valley tech companies and DC. Recent example from the banning of Bret Weinstein from Facebook: https://twitter.com/Liz_Shepherd/status/1319451084859953154?... This is a Facebook communications person responding with an official reply to this incident. She describes herself as "Facebook comms, formerly @TheDemocrats and @SpeakerPelosi". This is an exa…

"Power leakage" is inevitable. Everyone has political opinions. Most cops are Republicans. That alone doesn't mean that they're incapable of doing their job competently. What you're doing amounts to an ad hominem attack: you're criticizing the person delivering the message, rather than the message itself.

I'm not talking about political opinions, I'm talking about highly connected political operatives in positions of power within these companies.

Liz Bourgeois would be an example of such a person.

She was Assistant Press Secretary at the DNC and prior to that was a Legislative Correspondant for Nancy Pelosi and Debbi Wasserman Shultz.

Now she works as "Director, Strategic Response Communications" at Facebook.

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#239

I fear Taibbi is right, the suppression by Twitter, irrespective of the merits and veracity of NY Post's report, will now normalize all kinds of behavior by platforms of all kinds big and small. Which will then incentivize governments to take on the platforms. This also raises issues of unequal treatment - say the NY Post report was factually wrong - why pick on the NY Post only? Why not the hundreds of other "news o…

They're not suppressing the article because it's wrong, but because it's pretty obviously intentionally planted misinformation disguised as news. Twitter has a choice: either they can suppress it; or they can be pawns of whatever bad actors are creating this disinformation. It's a hard choice, and clearly it's a struggle that as a society we have to deal with. Right now, creating and distributing disinformation is ea…

They never provided evidence for this. By their own standards they should censor their own actions.

Also, why didn't they do this with the Pee Pee tape that the media wrote long thinkpieces about for YEARS? Trending on twitter, too, of course. There was never evidence of that either, yet they had no problems with it.

Are they changing their standard now based on the fact that the media lied so much in the past? and if so, why are the main perpetrators not being targeted?

Re: Suppression is a bigger scandal than the actual story

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been the reality for people on the political fringes for some time now. Unfortunately nobody's been paying attention to it due in large part to the commentariat/journalistic class's willingness to encourage and provide cover for this behavior as a matter of political expedience. Another example: Messenger's been blocking links to joebiden.info (this may have changed, it's been six months since I've checked)

Do you really think that it's out of "political expedience" that sites are blocking links to probable foreign disinformation? Or is it out of a moral interest in not being pawns of the bad actors who stand behind it? This kind of disinformation is dangerous, and we are vulnerable to it precisely because we value freedom of speech. That doesn't mean that we're morally obligated to value all speech equally. Obviously f…

Journalists and commentators are the ones acting out of political expediency. The platforms themselves are a mixed bag, occasionaly banning content that represents legitimate disinformation, but often suppressing information that's contextually true, or conflicts with an existing broader social narrative which the moderator required to inspect the content has bought into. The human moderators are often inconsistent.

The concept that any person or organization should be granted absolute authority to serve as the arbiter of whay constitutes dangerous or false speech, and the power to arbitrarily silence those who utter it offends me, and I consider it to be dangerous in and of itself. We'll not be able to agree on this.

WRT the NYP piece, probably foreign sourced is about right. Even before the media picked up its Russia Trumpet, I remember reading a rumor towards the beginning of the Trump-Ukraine phone call debacle that a Chinese billionaire had slipped Juliani a hard drive containing information that might be incriminating to Biden's some. Irrespective of the source, the computer shop narrative reeks.

But in spite of information's questionable provenance, it has been accompanied with compromising images of Hunter himself, and beyond stating that a meeting with Burisma execs wasn't on Biden's 'official' schedule, the biden campaign has yet (to my knowledge), to expressly deny the validity of the documents.

If this is disinformation, the FBI, which has ostensibly been in possession of the documents for several months, has every incentive to comment on it, as does the CIA. Beyond ambiguous citations of 'anonymous officials', I've yet to read that they've communicated anything to this effect. The Director of National Intelligence has gone so far as to claim that this wasn't a Russian disinformation project. But he's a Trump apparatchik with no history in intelligence outside his appointment, so I generally ignore him.

Probably foreign sourced? My gut says yes.

Possibly disinformation? The juries still out. Possibly's a pretty low bar for stealing someone's voice.

The tech companies took it upon themselves to censor this information. They've not claimed they were compelled or reccommended to by any official bodies any more than they were required to censor the name of the Urkaine whistleblower. But they chose to, of their own accord.

If you want to be treated like a platform, you have to live with the fact that your platform's going to be used to further the aims of anyone who wannts to use it. Bar illegal content and behaviors (things disinformation is not), the most you should do is notify your users, sit back, and take it.

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