Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest • Hacker News Board

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#271

Post by lostlogin » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 10:47 PM UTC

snuxoll wrote: post #220

marmaduke wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> plant bee-friendly flowering plants according to your region's climate. I have a bit of garden but in the middle of a residential district of a city. Do I have any chance to attract bees or is > starting your own hive the only way?

I have a good amount of bee-friendly flowers that are visited daily in the spring and summer by our local bee populations, it is very much “build it and they will come”. If I had a bigger yard I would host a couple hives of my own, I love just sitting out in the flowers in the warmer weather and watching them forage.

Bumble bees may be an option? Smaller hives, less issues with neighbours and great to watch.

I have no issues with neighbours and have somewhere between 3 and 6 hives depending on how you count. This is in a backyard of a suburban section. Preemptive honeystrikes may have helped - I get 150-250kgs of honey that it’s no issue giving it away and that seems to generate good will.

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#272

Post by hinkley » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 10:50 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #178

honkycat wrote: post #156

I always find the anti-environmentalist position that pops up on HN interesting. For a technical audience, they are amazingly unaware of "Systems Thinking". Saying "MEH, there are other pollinators" is lazy thinking. Our ecosystem is a vast web of interconnections. You cannot predict how one HUGELY important species being destroyed will affect the rest of our ecosystem. Furthermore: People use honey bees for honey (…

> I always find the anti-environmentalist position that pops up on HN interesting. For a technical audience, they are amazingly unaware of "Systems Thinking". Saying "MEH, there are other pollinators" is lazy thinking. Our ecosystem is a vast web of interconnections. You cannot predict how one HUGELY important species being destroyed will affect the rest of our ecosystem. FWIW honeybees are not part of the native US…

Honey bees are naturalized here. They are part of the ecosystem, for better or worse. Insect populations have adapted around them. Taking them away now would be a disruption, especially if it were not planned out.

For instance, if you were trying to reestablish some some native pollinator, reducing honey bee pressure might be part of that plan. Even possible a critical one. But just killing them and walking away? That probably won’t end well. It would be irresponsible to do so.

Even removing invasive species of plants involves a succession plan, so the same thing doesn’t happen again, or something worse moves into the vacuum. I know a couple people who could fill a whole workshop on what people often get wrong here (and I’ve encouraged one of them to do so, but no luck), but they would both agree that what gets done, flawed as it can be (especially in walking away too soon) is better than the status quo, or removal and neglect.

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#273

Post by lostlogin » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 10:53 PM UTC

nix23 wrote: post #180

rootusrootus wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a real risk? I thought it was pretty straightforward to breed more of them. For now. The colony collapse problem is real, but I haven't heard any serious discussion of honeybees going extinct.

> but I haven't heard any serious discussion of honeybees going extinct. In Europe it is..in fact it was the main-theme 3 years ago. And not just bees but insects overall...the honeybee was just the friendly looking ambassador for that message.

The number of hives in New Zealand has roughly doubled in 5 years - so much so that overstocking is a huge problem.

One small data point, but too many and too few are both bad. https://www.airborne.co.nz/pages/bee-keeping-statistics-new-...

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#274

Post by lostlogin » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 11:00 PM UTC

mlavin wrote: post #137

bloak wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no expert, but I've read a bit about Vespula vulgaris (the most common sort of wasp in the UK) and tackled a few nests in the past. My impression is that if you put a vacuum cleaner next to the entrance you may, if you're lucky, catch nearly all the wasps that leave the nest, but the queen never leaves the nest, and the eggs and larvae don't leave the nest, and I think there may also be some workers that stay in…

That's why you use dust or pyrethrin spray as well, and seal them in afterwards. Hot burning wasp death!

Vespex is used here in New Zealand and has been a game changer. Wasps are the greatest pest in New Zealand if you measure pests in “kgs per hectare”.

With Vespex you don’t go looking for nests, you let the colony poison itself.

Because it is protein based and not sugar based, it’s not attractive to as many species. The downside is that the wasps only take it at a specific time of year - when they are consuming protein.

https://www.merchento.com/vespex.html

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#275

Post by souprock » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 11:10 PM UTC

honkycat wrote: post #156

I always find the anti-environmentalist position that pops up on HN interesting. For a technical audience, they are amazingly unaware of "Systems Thinking". Saying "MEH, there are other pollinators" is lazy thinking. Our ecosystem is a vast web of interconnections. You cannot predict how one HUGELY important species being destroyed will affect the rest of our ecosystem. Furthermore: People use honey bees for honey (…

Short-sighted "environmentalist" thinking will let this invasive species take over all of North America and South America. We aren't willing to sacrifice, even temporarily, the local insects. You have to be willing to do that if you expect to stop this invasive species, because you can not possibly find all the nests fast enough.

If we were to think long-term, we could stop this invasive species. Crop duster planes spray everything within at least several generations or years of insect migration. That might mean 10,000 square miles gets completely soaked in a mix of Sevin, Malathion, and neonicotinoids.

Compared to the roughly 16,300,000 square miles at risk of being irrevocably harmed by an invasive species, that local and temporary ecosystem damage would be practically nothing.

We'll argue a bit and do nothing. The wasps are here to stay. Say goodbye to bees.

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#276

Post by Aeolun » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 11:18 PM UTC

honkycat wrote: post #156

I always find the anti-environmentalist position that pops up on HN interesting. For a technical audience, they are amazingly unaware of "Systems Thinking". Saying "MEH, there are other pollinators" is lazy thinking. Our ecosystem is a vast web of interconnections. You cannot predict how one HUGELY important species being destroyed will affect the rest of our ecosystem. Furthermore: People use honey bees for honey (…

> Honey bees are uniquely industrialized and failure to eliminate the Murder Hornet threat to honey bees will have HUGE implications.

We have honey bees in Japan. While I agree it will have huge implications, it’ll hardly be the last of them.

That said, I’d rather murder hornets go away everywhere.

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#277

Post by BasicObject » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 11:19 PM UTC

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #238

ip26 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we don't have honey bees, we do not have crops. There is no mystical "other pollinator" that is going to fill the niche of the honey bee Sorry, what? https://vcresearch.berkeley.edu/news/native-bees-often-bette... I haven't got it out for honey bees, but as your comment makes clear, native species are underappreciated.

I know where I live most native pollinators are very selective and, as a result, in very small numbers since their habitat doesn’t resemble what it did even 100 years ago. They’re a drop in the bucket compared to what we require... And even if we made enormous efforts to boost their populations, I think they’d largely only pollinate fruit trees.

Not disagreeing with you just curious why they would largely only pollinate fruit trees?

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#278

Post by Supermancho » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 11:20 PM UTC

brink wrote: post #152

pm90 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are smiles from strangers really that important to your well being?

It's an example of positive daily human interaction. Keeping minimum distance and hiding the most expressive part of the body removes a lot of that from daily life, and people do suffer from it. The world is significantly colder this year. I can't be the only one that feels it.

> It's an example of positive daily human interaction.

I find adults smiling to be gaudy and disconcerting, ever since I was a child. My wife included, although I like most of her so it's ok. Children don't bother me though, as it seems sincere.

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#279

Post by dotancohen » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 11:27 PM UTC

immmmmm wrote: post #243

honkycat wrote: post #156

I always find the anti-environmentalist position that pops up on HN interesting. For a technical audience, they are amazingly unaware of "Systems Thinking". Saying "MEH, there are other pollinators" is lazy thinking. Our ecosystem is a vast web of interconnections. You cannot predict how one HUGELY important species being destroyed will affect the rest of our ecosystem. Furthermore: People use honey bees for honey (…

I cannot agree more. If i could upvote twice i would. We are loosing biodiversity at a rate comparable to the last mass extinctions, we are loosing our "life support systems" as climate/biodiv. experts say, yet no one is concerned. This is beyond the worst i ever expected in my worst nightmares. And this is happening now. And no one says a world. No one even dare spending 5 minute reading the material. No one cares.…

  > And no one says a world. No one even dare spending
  > 5 minute reading the material. No one cares.

Recommend something that I can give to people that they can read in 5 minutes and be convinced.

Re: Washington crews destroy first U.S. “murder hornet” nest

#280

Post by jimmaswell » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 11:33 PM UTC

eneeigriega wrote: post #169

yawz wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in place where winters are harsh. Colonies need to be well-prepared to successfully overwinter. They are amazingly robust when they are healthy, but anything that affects this preparation can easily be deadly over a period of time. There can be many reasons. The Varroa Mite [0] is one that we have to constantly fight against, these days. The mites don't kill the entire colony, but weakens it so much that the c…

I don't know much about bees but I just recently started following an Instagram account (@texasbeeworks) that earlier this year posted a video[1] of a bee with a Varroa Mite. The video's caption: "Alright, here is what I want everyone to know about ‘murder hornets’. Only one nest of Asian Giant Hornets has been found in North America and it was quickly eradicated. Right now, the nation’s top entomologists are watchin…

> Only one nest of Asian Giant Hornets has been found in North America and it was quickly eradicated. Right now, the nation’s top entomologists are watching the situation and beekeepers like myself are not worried.

I can't help but think of when we only had one covid case and people said not to worry.