Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#241

Post by c1sc0 » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 5:42 AM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #118

aranelsurion wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't trying to explain poverty by referring to two of your friends a massive overprojection? There are indeed times when a problem could be solved on the higher level by managing resources better, if you actually have the hinterland. Yet not all problems are about the superstructure you built on physical realities, and sometimes you simply don't have enough money no matter how you budget, or not enough smart people…

I agree in part, but completely ignoring the management and choice aspects to whatever greatest extent that they are present is also forfeiting one of the best local responses. I think that’s where the Starbucks and avocado toast tropes come from. They’re not 100% right, but they’re surely not 100% wrong either. I work with engineers who are making 6-figures and struggling with money or on course for a poor retiremen…

What is wrong with a poor retirement? What is wrong with enjoying life today? What if your plan is simply never to retire?

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#242

Post by justalanm » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 9:24 AM UTC

bawolff wrote: post #38

justalanm wrote: post #23

Finance doesn't create value, most of the times actually destroys it. Moreover, you're looking at this with a clearly US-centric perspective, in many other countries we don't need to know about retirement schemes, school loans and health insurance policies (you seem to have forgotten that insurance IS finance, but this might be just another example of the reason why this is hairy). So, if tomorrow all of this changes…

So, if you dont need to know about school loans, how about car loans, morgatges, credit cards etc. If not, which communist utopia are you thinking of where you never have to worry about money, and how do i move there?

That's the point, you're not talking about money, but about debt and risk (people always forget about risk and insurance). What there is to know about credit cards, really? I pay something today with it, then I pay it back at a later date, it's debt.

This will to complicate things more than they need to comes from banks pretending that they are "cool again" and have all sorts of different products, when in reality banking is the most boring thing ever invented: here's some money now, you'll give it back to me at a later date with an interest.

Moreover, by your remark "communist utopia" you're perfectly showing that I'm right in calling for more literacy about history, philosophy and politics. This isn't communism in any possible form, au contraire we're still moving well within the boundaries of capitalism.

communism isn't about abolishing money, or debt

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#243

Post by Broken_Hippo » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 9:55 AM UTC

fakedang wrote: post #240

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not, and it isn't plagiarized - but I'm not the only person that has similar views, so it is quite possible to have the same basic theme.

I remember reading the exact same thing before: being taught personal finance by a car salesman friend of the teacher. Unless that's quite common in the United States of course. Not accusing you of anything BTW.

That bit I have posted before. The rest, nope.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#244

Post by yymalvina » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 11:42 AM UTC

I have grown up in eastern Europe. In the high school we have a subject called "przedsiębiorczość" (entrepreneurship). If I remember correctly 1h per week.

My teacher was a guy that has his own small IT shop, and he was really excited about having his own (albeit small) business. Unfortunately he cannot teach us anything usable, because he had to follow the official curriculum. Which was about demand and supply theory and economics importance to the modern society. All theoretical stuff without any practical use. The other thing was that I was living in post-communist country, where people generally disregarded entrepreneurship. Everyone that has money was think of as a criminal or a person that takes bribes.

When I was attending university, my economy knowledge was very low. I only heard about so called incubators (you may think of them as watered down startup accelerators for students with good ideas) on my last year there. It never occurred to me to start my own company as I was a student.

Now I regard this times as a wasted opportunity. I really envy people that are 4 or 5 years younger than me. In these 5 years mentality changed and now I see a lot of people starting their own companies or joining US startups (at least here in Warsaw). The law was also simplified and some barriers were lifted (e.g. amount of cash needed to start LLC company). And I ended up working at late stage US startup...

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#245

Post by llampx » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 1:47 PM UTC

Lammy wrote: post #4

From a USA perspective? Universal financial education might make people realize that our explicit racial segregation became implicit economic segregation after the civil rights laws of the 1960s. California isn't expensive by accident :/

If California wants to keep the non-whites out, they're doing a pretty poor job of it.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#246

Post by Lammy » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

llampx wrote: post #245

Lammy wrote: post #4

From a USA perspective? Universal financial education might make people realize that our explicit racial segregation became implicit economic segregation after the civil rights laws of the 1960s. California isn't expensive by accident :/

If California wants to keep the non-whites out, they're doing a pretty poor job of it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/priceonomics/2016/05/11/the-afr...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Great_Migration

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#247

Post by jandrewrogers » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 8:50 PM UTC

mellosouls wrote: post #234

jandrewrogers wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Median household investable income after all expenses, including housing, is about $12,000 per year, per the US government. So at least half of American households are in a position to do significant investment. The data consistently indicates that Americans have significantly more ability to invest than the impression many people seem to have.

What is the source for that, please? I'm not doubting, I just found it hard to find drill down info, including my own (not American) country. after all expenses To clarify - does it include all reasonable expenses for recreation, culture, food, commuting, etc, basically any normal (neither profligate or frugal) expenses for a balanced life?

This is based on ordinary spending, not essential spending. It has nothing to do with frugality. Transportation expenses are "ordinary" without regard for how much someone chooses to spend on a car. A lot of luxury spending is captured in "ordinary" at the aggregate level.

The US Bureau of Labor and Statistics (BLS) tracks the expenditures of every income decile of the population in considerable detail. If you want to know how much the average person at the 30th percentile of income spends on eggs, fresh vegetables, commuting, or many types of entertainment or non-essential spending, BLS can tell you in surprising detail. I have not seen similarly detailed data for other countries, which makes comparisons difficult.

The expenses BLS defines as "ordinary" are comprehensive, pretty much everything you'd expect, and they make no value judgments regarding how people actually spend in a particular category. The only category exclusion from ordinary living expenses that might be controversial is eating out at restaurants, but that is based on the fact that most Americans do so infrequently (it won't feel this way to the urban minority).

Subtract the median ordinary expenses from median income to arrive at $12,000 per year. Anecdotally, this number feels about right.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#248

Post by mellosouls » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 2:29 AM UTC

jandrewrogers wrote: post #247

mellosouls wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the source for that, please? I'm not doubting, I just found it hard to find drill down info, including my own (not American) country. after all expenses To clarify - does it include all reasonable expenses for recreation, culture, food, commuting, etc, basically any normal (neither profligate or frugal) expenses for a balanced life?

This is based on ordinary spending, not essential spending. It has nothing to do with frugality. Transportation expenses are "ordinary" without regard for how much someone chooses to spend on a car. A lot of luxury spending is captured in "ordinary" at the aggregate level. The US Bureau of Labor and Statistics (BLS) tracks the expenditures of every income decile of the population in considerable detail. If you want t…

Thank you (though I'd hoped for a link to that figure but I guess there's not a direct one, it's an implied result). It's higher than I would expect but of similar scale, perhaps my own perspective is a little biased by being non-US (though comparative), and mostly being used to a low-income environment and culture.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#249

Post by a_thro_away » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

6th Grade US, early 70s. We made fake checkbooks, we were given an income, had a small school store to spend it, had to balance checking and savings accounts. Learned about S&P 500 and looking up stocks, only avail. in book form at the time. I cannot fathom why parents don't require more from their schools - oh wait, yes I can - I moved from a city to rural where the hate for intellect(uals), schooling, academics is still palpable and stated, preferring instead comic books, baseball, football, truck cult, farming, hunting days off is prevalent, as stated to me directly.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#250

Post by goatcode » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

LOTS of schools in the US use the Ramsey Education curriculum (https://www.ramseyeducation.com/). There are strong opinions on both sides when it comes to Ramsey, but they're well respected and sponsored by some pretty big players, to put their curriculum in schools.