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The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

phoronix.com

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Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#141

Post by vfclists »

znpy wrote: post #125
apatheticonion wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just spent an hour trying to get it to connect to a VPN via a shell script with no success sudo nmcli conn up id "VPN" --ask Works great but there is no sign of --password --user-name Instead I have to write my configuration to a file and read from the that file. Even then I couldn't get it working. Also `--ask` doesn't ask for your user name. I mean, sure, it's probably fine when you know how to use it but it has…

just yesterday i set up a vpn client very easily by running nmcli connection import type openvpn file myconfig.vpn the only issue that i had was SELinux doing its job, and was quickly fixed. Even easier than with the usual gui tools.

How did you find SELinux was doing its job and how long did it take?

I gave up on SELinux about 20 years ago when it was a source of endless frustration, or was that 15?

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#142

Post by mcny »

oriesdan wrote: post #134
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wouldn’t even necessarily need git/github to implement a new system! Agree on a standard file name like .githeartbeat containing a timestamp. Every few months (or w/e), active maintainers could push a commit to update the timestamp.

It sounds like a good idea, but I'm afraid it may be a nightmare for packagers (like the ones providing packages on GNU/linux distros), as they see updates to upstream only to realize they are just pings and don't need to be repackaged. It wouldn't be that often, though. And maybe they would actually love to have such heartbeat. I would love to hear a packager on that.

Personally I'm a fan of zero touch where I as a developer submit my code repo to app store like play store, apple app store, flathub or something and they just build it using a standard definition that the store defines and make it available on the store. Kind of feels like a lot of effort for every distro to look at every change in every application...

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#143

Post by kbumsik »

agurk wrote: post #123

One important point to note in these discussions is that X.Org is a specific implementation of the X11 protocol (the canonical implementation as it happens). Wayland is the protocol and compared to X11 in this context. There are multiple implementations including: 1) Weston (the reference implementation) 2) Mutter (Gnome) 3) Kwin (KDE, also implements X11) It's important to draw the distinction as many/most of the li…

> People using different implementations will come across different issues too.

...which is the biggest problem of Wayland in my opinion.

By defining protocols only, we now have the development fragmentation problem. The desktop experiences will be more inconsistent between DEs than the era of X11, and minor DE users eventually are forced to switch to major DEs like Gnome because other DEs won't have enough devs to maintain its low-level implementation.

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#144

Post by FartyMcFarter »

perlgeek wrote: post #133
oriesdan wrote: post #94

This sounds like a bad case of Cult of Release. X works perfectly for me, and there is nothing I would want it to do that it doesn't do now. Why should it change? I have many programs I wrote years ago that I don't change and I use every day. Constant changes are not a measure of utility. But again and again, you'll find users looking at repositories and deciding that something is "dead" because there isn't any recen…

If somebody discovers a security bug, what are the chances that somebody can cut a high-quality release with the fix in it, if it hasn't been done for two years?

The fix can be submitted on the previous release branch. If that branch doesn't exist, it can be cut off of the old commit the release was made from.

If your objective is to improve security, this is better than getting a version with myriad changes that may introduce new bugs.

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#145

Post by tupputuppu »

gjvc wrote: post #109

This is a rather worrying stance to be pushing on something which is relied upon day in and day out. The phoronix author has lost credibility with me by the opinion expressed in this article. With this kind of FUD, it is no wonder Linux has a hard time being accepted on the desktop. What enterprises -- and everyday developers like me -- need, is a stable desktop to run IDEs and the like. As an example, Debian with Xo…

Apologies, but I don't understand your comment. The original article said X.org is unmaintained. Your comment basically replied "it works for me and I like it, Wayland doesn't cut it".

Sure - great opinion - but doesn't change the state of the world, which is that X.org is unmaintained and all the real development firepower has moved on to Wayland.

We can all have opinions and I kind of agree with yours, but the article is about the realities of life and facts which we need to accept.

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#146

Post by tupputuppu »

nix23 wrote: post #135
sildur wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like paradise. Where do I have to sign? I’m tired of crapware breaking on every “upgrade”.

OS: OpenBSD Phone: Nokia8110 Watch: Vostok or Raketa

That's not correct - OpenBSD is being actively maintained. Although they're using a lot of old, stable and proven software, they're also doing security and bug fixes and even creating new functionality.

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#147

Post by formerly_proven »

kriive wrote: post #57

I have been using sway on Fedora for a year. It's been really good so. It's a smaller niche than X.org's, but I get to do everything I need. HiDPI support is just right, just throw output eDP1-1 scale 2 in the config and you're set. Clipboard works perfectly splendid, screen-sharing works (not as perfectly splendid as clipboard does), input works, chromium/electron is getting support for native wayland. Qt and GTK Wa…

> just throw output eDP1-1 scale 2 in the config and you're set

Why? What? Why? The system exactly knows the DPI of all attached displays, why does it still need explicit configuration in 2020 to support HiDPI?!

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#148

Post by gtirloni »

darthrupert wrote: post #115
znpy wrote: post #38

I am not necessarily against Wayland or new things in general. But it bothers me when no clear upgrade path is defined ("drop your stuff" is not acceptable) and a half-hassed incomplete solution is proposed instead, and backwards compatibility is pretty much disregarded. For what concerns my personal computing, I'll stay on Xorg until XFCE supports Wayland. Then I'll update.

Wayland was the last straw for me. It made me switch to Macs after 20 years of almost exclusive Linux on the desktop and a few dev stints. It was cool when my time was less expensive. I check the state of the linux world about once a year still. And obviously keep using it on the servers. Best of luck to everyone using it for desktop. I totally get why you do it, but it's just not for me right now.

Nobody is forcing you to use Wayland. Or are they? On Fedora it's a single line change em /etc to disable it (which I do because of Nvidia).

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#149

Post by dx87 »

vfclists wrote: post #141
znpy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just yesterday i set up a vpn client very easily by running nmcli connection import type openvpn file myconfig.vpn the only issue that i had was SELinux doing its job, and was quickly fixed. Even easier than with the usual gui tools.

How did you find SELinux was doing its job and how long did it take? I gave up on SELinux about 20 years ago when it was a source of endless frustration, or was that 15?

You can have SELinux in a learning mode where it gives you a notification when it blocks something, and a command you can run to make it not block that action any more.

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#150

Post by chousuke »

znpy wrote: post #80
diegocg wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>backwards compatibility is pretty much disregarded. Wayland compositors provide backwards compatibility with most X11 apps via XWayland, I don't think it's fair to say that they completely disregard compatibility

last time i checked remote desktop (ala vnc) was not really a thing and opening remote apps on the local display (ala ssh -X) wasn't a thing either. That's disregard for backwards compatibility to me. edit: which is not to shit on wayland itself, it's to complain about the general attitude which is like "just don't do that" or "oh that's old, we don't support that"

wayvnc and waypipe work just fine nowadays.

I've actually used waypipe more often in the last year than I ever used ssh -X, thanks to a shift towards WFH :P It's sometimes useful to be able to run Firefox remotely from my workstation at the office.

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