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The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

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Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#21

Post by boudin »

est31 wrote: post #7

Today I've updated to the newest Kubuntu release 20.10 and considered switching to Wayland, but then abandoned the idea when I found out that middle click copy paste is only implemented in Plasma 5.20, and I only have Plasma 5.19. I've seen they've fixed the screenshot program though (which I remember to have been an issue on older versions). I'm looking forward to 21.04 for my next attempt to switch, maybe by then F…

Firefox native support is pretty much here already (I've been using it for quite a time now and it works really well). The only missing piece that is not merged yet is screen sharing unfortunately. It's available on Fedora's Firefox build.

All GTK3 apps runs well on Wayland too. Qt apps runs well but it doesn't feel as polished (I mainly have issues when I use 2 screen with different scaling).

The last big things are chromium and electron. Once those have ozone merged and enabled in stable, it's gonna be a massive step forward. Those are the last apps I can't run natively on wayland. Ozone is in the beta branches now so, hopefully, it will happen next year.

After, it's not that much of a big deal to run those on xwayland as long there's no scaling. As soon as you're on a hidpi screen or just use scaling, it's when it becomes blurry and is quite annoying. I personally still prefer wayland over x because the experience is just better. No flickering, it's smooth and feels more snappy.

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#22

Post by ceronman »

I have been using Fedora with Wayland daily for over 7 months now and I it works pretty well.

I see that there are a lot of complains about Wayland here on HN. About input, screenshots and other stuff. But I have not experienced any of that. Input works perfectly and I have no problem with screenshots or screencasts.

Maybe it's that I have well supported hardware (Thinkpad X1C7) or is it something that I'm missing?

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#23

Post by willtim »

flavor8 wrote: post #15
nlayers wrote: post #12

X.org works fine, Wayland seems to be another RedHat thing. I must admit I haven't tried it, but given NetworkManager, systemd and other pearls from RedHat I'm not optimistic.

What's your problem with NetworkManager? It's generally good, and certainly much better than what came before.

This isn't true. It was never as good as Intel's Connman, which was designed to be modular from the start. NetworkManager started out as a UI app and then was evolved into what it is now. It's still not as fast as connecting to WiFi as Connman. I guess it was adopted instead of Connman because RedHat.

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#25

Post by akvadrako »

corty wrote: post #11
stevefan1999 wrote: post #5

Yes, I agree. X11 is a historic artifact that is supposed to be honored in the museum now. The C/S architecture of X11 hits the spot when terminals and thin client are the norm, that means 20-30 years ago, but today, we all have dedicated graphics display devices (GPU, monitors) even in our pocket smartphone, and the way X11 works is holding Linux desktop scene back. But without X11 there you can't show how much impr…

Where is that supposed Wayland progress after a decade? Input is broken and inconsistent, screenshots don't work, remoting is broken, every WM has to be rewritten or abandoned, trivialities like c&p handling are not yet there. Wayland is still in the early phase of catching up to X11, for any progress it will take another decade or maybe even a Wayland replacement. We should face it, Wayland is a dead end.

If those are your best arguments against Wayland you are making a good case for it because:

input is broken and inconsistent – what?

screenshots don't work – they do. I use them all the time.

remoting is broken – I know it's supported but I've never wanted to do it.

every WM has to be rewritten or abandoned – of course, that's by design. Wayland doesn't even have WMs.

c&p handling are not yet there – do you mean copy and paste? That works fine; it also has a clipboard manager protocol.

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#26

Post by apatheticonion »

flavor8 wrote: post #15
nlayers wrote: post #12

X.org works fine, Wayland seems to be another RedHat thing. I must admit I haven't tried it, but given NetworkManager, systemd and other pearls from RedHat I'm not optimistic.

What's your problem with NetworkManager? It's generally good, and certainly much better than what came before.

I just spent an hour trying to get it to connect to a VPN via a shell script with no success

    sudo nmcli conn up id "VPN" --ask
Works great but there is no sign of

    --password
    --user-name
Instead I have to write my configuration to a file and read from the that file. Even then I couldn't get it working.

Also `--ask` doesn't ask for your user name.

I mean, sure, it's probably fine when you know how to use it but it has to be one of the least intuitive CLI front ends I have used

I am also frustrated that I couldn't figure it out, which makes me biased

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#28

Post by spurgu »

flavor8 wrote: post #15
nlayers wrote: post #12

X.org works fine, Wayland seems to be another RedHat thing. I must admit I haven't tried it, but given NetworkManager, systemd and other pearls from RedHat I'm not optimistic.

What's your problem with NetworkManager? It's generally good, and certainly much better than what came before.

Or systemd? I've read about complaints regarding it but never had any issues myself on the many dozens of servers that I've managed. On the contrary I find systemd very easy to work with.

Edit: This makes sense from an architecture point of view (although unsure whether things have changed since): http://www.landley.net/notes-2014.html#23-04-2014

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#29

Post by boudin »

jojobas wrote: post #18

X.org is not abandonware, it is actively supported. The fact that it's not updated with Awesome New Features every month, well, neither is Bash or Postfix. Some things should just work.

Not it is not, that's the whole point of the article. There's been no release for the past 2 years, even if there's bug fixes and updates waiting to be released. There's no release planned. If another company steps in an decide to take over support from Redhat, it can come back to life though.

Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?

#30

Post by s1k3s »

lloydatkinson wrote: post #17
corty wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is that supposed Wayland progress after a decade? Input is broken and inconsistent, screenshots don't work, remoting is broken, every WM has to be rewritten or abandoned, trivialities like c&p handling are not yet there. Wayland is still in the early phase of catching up to X11, for any progress it will take another decade or maybe even a Wayland replacement. We should face it, Wayland is a dead end.

It’s this kind of endless stream of broken and incompatible technologies that makes me use Linux in server and embedded scenarios only. Every time I’ve had to use desktop Linux it’s just been one problem after another.

Not sure what you're trying to use it for but I've been on Mint for the past 4 years and I've had no problem with it, other than the fact that every time I turn on the computer I have to run a shell script that fixes my resolution. I'm using it for development, I also have a personal Mac and my work PC is Windows and I can say the Linux is miles ahead of both of them. And the Mac and Windows computers have been $1500 and $700 respectively, while the one that runs Mint cost me $300. Linux is #1 for me for development just because of how fast and non intrusive it is, no resources spent on user tracking, no unwanted updates shoved down your throat and so on.
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