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Epic says Apple ‘has no rights to the fruits of Epic’s labor’ in latest filing

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Re: Epic says Apple ‘has no rights to the fruits of Epic’s labor’ in latest filing

#11

Post by quelltext »

zenincognito wrote: post #3

Going to fall on its head. Apple isnt asking for fruits of their labour but charging from device abuse, management of store and general device health.

I don't think the biggest issue is that the AppStore is the only distribution channel. The core issue that escalated this is that the distribution channel forces additional fees for no value in some cases (i.e. services/apps/games that have their own payment collection system in place).

I don't think the fee is there to protect device health. There are plenty of free apps with no fees levied, so that point doesn't make sense.

I think it's fair to charge a fee for using the store as a paid app distribution channel. If Apple takes on the burden of risk, funds flow management, etc. it's fair to take a cut.

If Epic instead builds their own payment system, they shouldn't be charged for it or forced into using Apple's.

Apple could claim that they need to cover hosting costs or review costs. And I think there's an argument here, but it's not made, and it would raise additional questions around fairness.

Re: Epic says Apple ‘has no rights to the fruits of Epic’s labor’ in latest filing

#14

Post by saurik »

pjmlp wrote: post #9
teruakohatu wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Epic has no right to run anything on iOS except by Apple's permission. Epic should have every right to distribute apps and users every right to download them (outside the app store at no cost to Apple) . Unfortunately in our dystopian reality a couple of corporations get to decide who can run what.

They signed a contract willingly, no one forced them to. Also they are completely fine with the console stores.

And so then the question at hand is whether it was a legal contract due to constraints on what Apple is allowed to do as a market actor in their position.

Re: Epic says Apple ‘has no rights to the fruits of Epic’s labor’ in latest filing

#15

Post by supernova87a »

I wholeheartedly agree! And by that same token, I gladly await Epic refunding all of my payments, since they shouldn't take the fruits of my labor just to keep using their software.

I am starting to regard Epic's legal team with the same kind of respect I have for political campaign spokespeople.

Re: Epic says Apple ‘has no rights to the fruits of Epic’s labor’ in latest filing

#16

Post by Inityx »

gigatexal wrote: post #12

Epic smh. This is the same argument that people use to claim federal income taxes are illegal: it’s the cost of doing business in the USA to pay taxes. To be in the iOS ecosystem you gotta pay the App Store tax.

Taxation without representation is what caused the American Revolution

Re: Epic says Apple ‘has no rights to the fruits of Epic’s labor’ in latest filing

#17

Post by cik »

There's a reality that Epic doesn't have to like, no matter how bizarre. Apple is not the only gatekeeper of an App Store for iOS. Apple is the gatekeeper of the only certified App Store on iOS, that allows users to run on their fully warrantied device. Users can always choose to try to jailbreak and install Cydia, and Epic could release their games there.

Re: Epic says Apple ‘has no rights to the fruits of Epic’s labor’ in latest filing

#18

Post by sci_prog »

cik wrote: post #17

There's a reality that Epic doesn't have to like, no matter how bizarre. Apple is not the only gatekeeper of an App Store for iOS. Apple is the gatekeeper of the only certified App Store on iOS, that allows users to run on their fully warrantied device. Users can always choose to try to jailbreak and install Cydia, and Epic could release their games there.

I've been wondering for a while why they haven't done this yet. It would probably make millions of users jailbreak their iPhones. It would be a big f u from epic to apple.

Re: Epic says Apple ‘has no rights to the fruits of Epic’s labor’ in latest filing

#20

Post by gigatexal »

Inityx wrote: post #16
gigatexal wrote: post #12

Epic smh. This is the same argument that people use to claim federal income taxes are illegal: it’s the cost of doing business in the USA to pay taxes. To be in the iOS ecosystem you gotta pay the App Store tax.

Taxation without representation is what caused the American Revolution

They are being represented: they’re treated equally in the store. But they chose to throw a fit. Also your linking this to that historical event doesn’t fit. There’s no ocean between the two parties: app review and email fix that. Communication is also instant. And most of all this isn’t a platform with a relationship that users can change. Users here being Epic a seller of software. It’s not a democracy and it need not be. It’s a platform that one can (and has in Epic’s case) agree to the terms and get access to billion users who are by far and a way much more likely to spend and who do spend more in apps than their Android counterparts.
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