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Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

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Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#211

Post by leetcrew »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #209
leetcrew wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

did they know rent would be 70% of their income when they decided to have their first child? their third?

This is pretending a world is perfect. If pregnancy were easy to prevent, folks would have done it well before modern times. But that simply isn't the case. It doesn't matter if they knew the rent was that high, and it isn't like folks can avoid this in all areas. Expecting a couple to never have sex is unreasonable and pregnancy cannot always be prevented. In some areas, access to abortion is abysmal, though in some…

okay, I concede there are some parts of the world where family planning is actually pretty difficult. but think about the chain of things that have to go wrong to have an unplanned child in most wealthy countries.

you have to improperly use (or eschew entirely) the several forms of birth control available. you don't need insurance to buy condoms, and they are not particularly expensive. even if you can't afford to buy hormonal birth control, an IUD, or condoms outright, you can often get them for free or very cheap through planned parenthood. if you are even using one of these correctly, your risk of pregnancy in a given year is if everything I mentioned above has gone wrong and you actually bring a child into the world that you did not plan for, you can still put the child up for adoption. the demand for newborns is quite a bit higher than the number that are actually available for adoption.

I can easily believe there are a lot of parents out there who had good plans for raising their children that went sideways due to truly unforeseeable circumstances. I think there are also a lot of parents who chose to have children without having any idea how they would support them. what I don't believe is that there is a meaningful number of parents in wealthy countries who are stuck supporting children they had no intention of raising.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#212

Post by triceratops »

If I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd say that the moneyed class doesn't want everyone to understand money and finance. People uneducated about marginal tax rates are more likely to vote down tax increases, turn down raises because they'll "go up a tax bracket", and not try to change the difference between tax rates on earned and unearned income. People who don't understand retirement savings are less likely to meet their 401k match, or ask awkward questions about why the 401k/IRA/Roth/pension system is so confusing and convoluted, and so geared towards earning financial institutions fees. People who don't understand monetary policy, deficits, and fractional reserve banking won't make a fuss over QE or have an opinion on interest rates, and can easily be manipulated with cries of "OMG deficits! Irresponsible government!". People who don't understand debt and cash flow will make shortsighted decisions like financing expensive vehicles or taking out payday loans. All of this is beneficial to capital owners (yours truly included).

Using Hanlon's razor though, it's more likely that educators themselves don't understand this stuff so don't consider it important to teach. Most parents don't understand either, so they don't demand that it be taught. And those few parents who do understand its importance just teach their kids by themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#213

Post by triceratops »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #70
HenryBemis wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dave Ramsey (not connected in any way - just like his message), can be a bit 'over the top' sometimes, but in his daily radio show you can listen some (financial mismanagement) horror stories. He has a "7 baby steps process" that I believe everyone should know (and adapt to his/her will/preferences/life setup). Yes is a fanatic christian, yes, he can be a bit tiring when he takes a religious tangent, but still, I fin…

There's a really complex/perverse thing here which I'm going to fumble with, so I hope the dear reader forgives. This information is not available to the black community. Now, obviously, any black person is technically capable of tuning into the Fox News channel where Dave Ramsey has a show, or dial their radio to conservative radio stations where Dave Ramsey is broadcast. But in practical terms, Dave Ramsey is unava…

Dave Ramsey isn't the only personal finance pundit out there. Nor even close to being among the best ones. Dave is downright mediocre.

You're also denying people of color agency by saying that unless personal finance education comes to them, they have no hope of finding it by themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#215

Post by [deleted] »

leetcrew wrote: post #126
mellosouls wrote: post #10

everyone should a fundamental understanding of how a savings account, CD account, IRA, Roth IRA, 401(k) and MSA account work. Likewise, everyone should have a fundamental understanding of the equity markets, derivatives markets, futures markets, bond and treasury markets along with an understanding of how interest rates work and their effects on financial instruments like mortgages. How much money do you think most p…

the median net worth of a US household is $121,411. you have to go down into the bottom quartile to find households with a net worth under $10k. most americans absolutely have enough money to make investments relevant. https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-net-worth-percentiles/

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#216

Post by fakedang »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #29

We got taught about basic finance. It was poor: The teacher had a friend from a care dealership come in to teach us some things. I was 13. But more importantly: What a wide swath of folks need is how to survive poverty. So many people never get to the point of even considering a CD or IRA. Most folks only really need the bank account for paying things. 401(k) simply because that's what is offered by the employer, and…

I swear to God, have you posted this comment on reddit or some place else? I read this exact same comment elsewhere.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#218

Post by lostdog »

nickff wrote: post #189
tjs8rj wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking in good faith: data to back you up? Just my anecdata, growing up living in apartments with 8 siblings at one point, many friends who grew up in foster homes and trailer parks - maybe 1 or 2 I could recall who were “doing everything right” but still poor, and that seemed primarily because they were on disability and elderly. The rest? Spent every paycheck, griped about immigrants and how the govt takes too much…

(Economist) Bryan Caplan is currently working on a book, and his research so far seems to agree with your points: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAaCpyuwRIw

Caplan is very right wing ("the homeless still smile!"). The talk was still okish, but the points of view come from one side and could use some balance.

Blaming poverty on "impulsive sex" and leaving blameless the policies of limiting birth control and freedom of choice is a pretty myopic point of view.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#219

Post by RickJWagner »

I have no idea why finance isn't part of the core. Truly, it should be.

A financially literate person can make a good life out of an ordinary income. A financially illiterate person can bring catastrophe on themselves and others around them, in spite of an extraordinary income.

Financial illiteracy hurts individuals, families, and society in general.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#220

Post by stjohnswarts »

bartaxyz wrote: post #17

I studied in Czech Republic and we had entire class spanning out over two years for economic and financial literacy at my high school. On the practical level, we were even tasked to fill out tax returns for a fictional company and we learned how to start freelancing & start a company. It was a high school in a rather small town on the south of Czech Republic, nothing special. I don't know how common this is in the re…

I grew up in a small down here in the USA. For a few years we had a retired accountant come in and teach (as one of our elective courses) business accounting, stocks, and personal finances. From what I understand he did it for a relatively reduced fee (paid as a substitute teacher). I took the course one year and it was successful for three years and was a pretty good foundation and has been very useful since. Some parents complained about it tirelessly as a waste of time and that students should be learning shop class and advanced math (that they most likely would never use). Eventually the guy got tired of fighting and quit teaching it and they never replaced him.
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