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An open letter to India’s youth: Get off that smartphone. It can destroy you

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

101–110 of 143 posts

Re: An open letter to India’s youth: Get off that smartphone. It can destroy you

#101

I think this is a good message, but by making the phone the problem I fear the author misses a fundamental connection to the youth he addresses. The issue is what you do on a phone, not the phone itself. In fact, phones make it a lot easier to create and not just consume, than televisions did back in the author's youth. And I bet there were similar anti-TV op-eds in newspapers in those days that the author would have…

The phone as a device appears to definitely be biased towards consumption rather than production. Another message to add about creativity: don't forget about building real physical things. It is great to have digital wealth, but we also need physical stuff and society seems more and more detached from the creation of this physical stuff, which strikes me as a worrying trend.

> It is great to have digital wealth, but we also need physical stuff and society seems more and more detached from the creation of this physical stuff, which strikes me as a worrying trend.

I’m sorry, what exactly is “digital wealth” supposed to mean?

Re: An open letter to India’s youth: Get off that smartphone. It can destroy you

#102

I'm old enough to remember when it was TV that was supposedly wasting the time and destroying the youth. Before that, it was comic books. And movies. And even in the 19th century people were complaining about novels. Yes, in theory it is better if people do something constructive rather than just enjoy entertainment. But people can't be 100% in productive mode 100% of the time.

The amount of toxicity is also a factor. Novels, Comics and Movies are much less toxic than Media.

All three of those are forms of media.

Re: An open letter to India’s youth: Get off that smartphone. It can destroy you

#103
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole idea that being without a phone is somehow liberating — and just not using it is definitely not as pure and wholly amazing as being completely without it — is to me a silly and predictable response to the very real drawbacks of high tech modern life. Phones have value. That’s why people use them. Pretending they don’t and that we’re all brainwashed doesn’t change that reality. Here’s an example: I want to…

You don't need a phone for any of the activities you described. Stores are pretty much open business hours, or 24 hours, they follow the same pattern. Or just show up and it is closed. Go somewhere else. Public transport runs to a schedule. Just show up and transport will show up within n minutes anyway, whether you know the time or nor. Or just use the timetable at the station. Yes, no music, just your thoughts. but…

Apps makes a difference for public transport in places like London, where computing all the required changes is totally non-trivial problem and basically can't be done in a close to optimal manner without a computer. So, the phone is saving you real time and money.

Re: An open letter to India’s youth: Get off that smartphone. It can destroy you

#104
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why it is so liberating.

Why is it liberating? I'm old enough that I used to live that way as a youth because I didn't have a cell phone. It was an annoying waste of time with zero benefits.

It's especially liberating to those young of us to have grown up with the phone always on all the time. Never get to hang out after school without everyone wanting to know where you are. Never get to roam the neighborhood without everyone wanting to know where you are. Never getting to encounter danger without extreme societal pressure to take the least risks and encounter the least amount of strange and difficult situations possible. Never getting to rely on your own ingenuity and tact because the phone can always answer better and faster. The phone does improve life in some ways, but it also strips us of others. If you had lived your adolescence without the god-mind constantly watching you, you might not understand what it's like to grow up these days. I'm sure you had your own difficulties but I wouldn't comment on those like I understand them.

I frightens me that we've set up our society to value perfect productivity over all else. It's unhealthy, at least for some. Maybe even life was worse on the whole before the connectivity singularity stole our privacy and our free time, but you cant say it was worse in every way. Why are we opposed to allowing others the ability to gain that perspective? Why should we tell someone that the way they discovered more of their humanity is pointless because it might "waste time". Do we meditate? Do we rest? I could just as easily say that spending all your time on your phone on a bus or transit is just as much wasting your time as is sitting and staring at the ceiling. The mind never shuts off. Could I ask anyone to repeat to me the important information they learned from that post on their bus transit 3 Tuesdays ago? Maybe they did learn something important and do remember. But maybe I came to a realization that I wouldn't have, without giving myself the space to think. Or maybe I met this beautiful girl who I just had my first date with. Or maybe I just sat and stopped stressing about everything that's bad in the world. Maybe I took some time to breathe so that I could be a more pleasant person for my child after a difficult day of work.

You could say that these things are all achievable through the phone and I think we can all agree there are marked differences between conversations over text and those in person, between an interesting point we read and an epiphany that we came to ourselves.

I don't want to be hypocritical tell you that your way is wrong or that your perspective is incorrect, just maybe a little push to think about what it would be like to be someone else. Who might have written that post? What might their life be like to make them think those things? What in my life has lead me to believe what I do? In my experience, these are the kinds of thoughts I don't have through the phone.

As an addendum, I'd say that there are many many uses for the phone, I would guess that you don't have a snapchat and an instagram to check and constantly worry about. But these days you can't be social or even participate in high school (college to a slightly lesser extent) without having one or both of those things (probably even newer ones I don't know about). It's not necessarily just freedom from google maps, but from the panopticon and extreme pressures to portray your life in a certain way.

Re: An open letter to India’s youth: Get off that smartphone. It can destroy you

#105
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Phones have value. That’s why people use them Now try the same line but with heroin, or fast food, or whatever people use to their detriment... Besides, anything that has value also has an opportunity cost, which can be much more important than the value inherent in the thing... > Here’s an example: I want to take public transport to a grocery store. I walk out the door. I don’t have my phone. First of all, if I do…

You’ve never got to a store only to realize they are closed on Mondays or something?

If such an event has ruined your life, I wager that you have bigger or more systemic problems going on than not being able to buy a stick of butter from Cooper's Grocery on a particular day.

The capacity of being flexible is valuable. Yes, having the world in your pocket is valuable when something jumps up and goes "boo". However, most people should not need to Google-search "what do I do after 'boo'?" every single time.

Re: An open letter to India’s youth: Get off that smartphone. It can destroy you

#106

Doom scrolling is a terrifying problem for me, personally. I have only recently realized just how bad it is. I have recently gotten headfirst back into turntablism/vinyl DJ’ing, and leaving my iPhone in my room, just wearing my Apple Watch with me to tell the time and to do a quick voice reply to someone if it’s important enough. I’m trying to start reading books again. It’s scarily hard to keep that level of attenti…

You can browse Hacker News on Apple Watch.

- Sent from my Apple Watch

Re: An open letter to India’s youth: Get off that smartphone. It can destroy you

#107
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it liberating you from? Your own empowerment?

Basically yeah, but I would rephrase it as liberation from constant reliance, or from always having the perfect answer, from a lessened use of ones mind, from necessary human interaction to ask anyone a question, or from spending any precious second not maximizing the amount of information and "productivity" you can achieve. It's about being a human, in an environment, around other humans, with time to spare for orig…

Think of it as rearranging your life to have those quiet moments when you want them, with the people you want to have them with.

For example, I once used my phone to reroute my wife and I around an unexpectedly closed train station so we could spend a planned hour in an old cathedral. We were glad we were able to meditate and be alone with our thoughts in that cathedral instead of being alone with them trying to read unfamiliar train tables and chase down busy transit employees.

After that we used the phone to update our plans to meet a friend in that city. In the 90s we probably would have just gone home and missed seeing our friend for another few years. We had a nice, long conversation with her.

That doesn’t have anything to do with productivity and the only things we maximized were the most important leisure activities that day.

Your motivation is certainly a good one, to be clear.

Re: An open letter to India’s youth: Get off that smartphone. It can destroy you

#108
This not only came off as condescending, but also desperate and whiny.

The first paragraph (paraphrased) “I am writing in a BIG newspaper, and I was taught that when someone writes in A Real Serious Newspaper, I deserve to be read”

I look at newspapers like churches. Churches and newspapers are businesses in some ways, they exist because they meet the needs of their customers. I went to church as a little kid but I don’t as a man because it does not meet my needs, I have community in other places and I don’t need old white dudes yelling at me that I am living my life “wrong” (aka, not the way they think life should be lived).

Also, from an intellectual level this argument is extremely boring and stale. It has literally been made continuously throughout time since the Greeks and the beginning of our records of recorded discourse, and was probably made too before we have records.

Re: An open letter to India’s youth: Get off that smartphone. It can destroy you

#109
post #64

An interesting experiment is to leave your phone at home when you go out. Try it. I don't mean take your phone anyway but don't use it. That is not the same thing. The value in this experiment is not to have your phone to fall back on. Initially you feel anxiety, but it soon becomes quite liberating. Having to look at road signs to navigate, relying on personal interaction or reading notices to find things out etc et…

This whole idea that being without a phone is somehow liberating — and just not using it is definitely not as pure and wholly amazing as being completely without it — is to me a silly and predictable response to the very real drawbacks of high tech modern life. Phones have value. That’s why people use them. Pretending they don’t and that we’re all brainwashed doesn’t change that reality. Here’s an example: I want to…

Just want to second this.

I live somewhere were having your phone out is dangerous so I'm forced to use it only when needed. The number one thing I use my phone for is checking bus routes (second is store times which can be very odd, especially with the pandemic). I know some routes off the top of my head but not the majority. Plus although I always plan where I'm going before hand so I know the streets (although many are missing signs), what time things are open, if the buses are actually working (apart from strikes, sometimes a bus line might be diverted due to construction/protests), often I end up going more places than I plan and end up needing to take a different bus than I had planned back.

I mean if I get my phone stolen or something I'll still be fine, but I don't get how having to hunt down road signs and depending on others to tell you the right info can possible feel liberating? I have navigated the city before it's bus app was built and internet was reliable, and it was not fun. Plus recently I've had problems with my contacts and because I can't stand my full prescription in glasses I can't see far away so it's been even more liberating to have my phone. I can quickly glance at google maps (even without internet and just gps on) and see where I am. Extremely useful in buses where I'm too far to see the road signs at all. I would hate having to ask the driver all the time to drop me off at the right street.

Re: An open letter to India’s youth: Get off that smartphone. It can destroy you

#110
post #64

An interesting experiment is to leave your phone at home when you go out. Try it. I don't mean take your phone anyway but don't use it. That is not the same thing. The value in this experiment is not to have your phone to fall back on. Initially you feel anxiety, but it soon becomes quite liberating. Having to look at road signs to navigate, relying on personal interaction or reading notices to find things out etc et…

This whole idea that being without a phone is somehow liberating — and just not using it is definitely not as pure and wholly amazing as being completely without it — is to me a silly and predictable response to the very real drawbacks of high tech modern life. Phones have value. That’s why people use them. Pretending they don’t and that we’re all brainwashed doesn’t change that reality. Here’s an example: I want to…

I think you’re misunderstanding the suggestion. The OP isn’t claiming the things you describe are dumb or wasteful or that you should never carry your phone. The suggestion is that sometimes doing without it can teach you interesting things, including about your phone.

I’m an avid backpacker (>60 nights on the trail most years) and I experience the same phenomenon (I don’t mean the phone, which is just a deadweight in the country). I sometimes just do without some piece of equipment and find out I’m fine. You often don’t need a tent, even in the snow.

It turns out less clutter makes much of the experience more enjoyable; you have fewer decisions to make and more “attention” to pay to other things which could be where you are or it could be something in your head you brought with you. It can also be a real PITN if, say, it’s raining and you foolishly don’t have shelter.

Do I bring a tent? Often. But it’s ok if I don’t.

And what is the phone but an infinitely large backpack full of clutter? Worse, much of that clutter is actively designed to distract you and imbue FOMO (suggesting new things precisely as you complete the old, ruining the cognitive desire for “completion”). Phones are great and I always carry mine around in town. But losing it would be inconvenient, not devastating.

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