Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#111

Post by vsskanth » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 1:27 PM UTC

cransallinf wrote: post #108

vsskanth wrote: post #107

This isn't true for all countries. I did my high school in India and I had to do tax returns (ex. calculate taxes for a working couple w/ mortgage, investment income, PF (401k) etc.) and financial calculations (compound interest etc.) as part of math class. I think it was in 10th grade ?? Don't know. This is the baseline. Certain streams in high school had full blown booking keeping courses, accounting practices and…

To clarify - do you mean Indian equivalent of 401k or did they have you do American income taxes in an Indian school? (Were that many folks planning to go to US??)

Yeah Indian equivalent. Its called PF (401k) and PPF (IRA).

India also had other tax deductible stuff like infrastructure bonds etc.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#112

Post by throwmylifawy » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 1:30 PM UTC

Consultant32452 wrote: post #70

HenryBemis wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dave Ramsey (not connected in any way - just like his message), can be a bit 'over the top' sometimes, but in his daily radio show you can listen some (financial mismanagement) horror stories. He has a "7 baby steps process" that I believe everyone should know (and adapt to his/her will/preferences/life setup). Yes is a fanatic christian, yes, he can be a bit tiring when he takes a religious tangent, but still, I fin…

There's a really complex/perverse thing here which I'm going to fumble with, so I hope the dear reader forgives. This information is not available to the black community. Now, obviously, any black person is technically capable of tuning into the Fox News channel where Dave Ramsey has a show, or dial their radio to conservative radio stations where Dave Ramsey is broadcast. But in practical terms, Dave Ramsey is unava…

I appreciate you for being open, vulnerable and expressing your ideas. However I am black and what you are saying does not sound correct to me. I know a lot of black people (including my family) who listen to Dave Ramsey and watch Fox News. Black people are in general pretty religiously conservative in the US. Personally I used to watch financial TV channels growing up like CNBC and listen to Clark Howard and Susie Orman.

I can see the appeal of a straight talker and pull up by your boot straps personality such as Ramsey. He has helped a lot of people. His style does not work for me personally.

I personally think the financial problems (in general) with black people (aside from racism) in the US stems from two related things: the lack of a coherent family structure and lack of intergenerational wealth transfer. The single-mother family poverty angle is pretty clear: Single mothers have low availability and are poor, and poor people tend to make poor financial decisions due to exploitation and desperation. The intergenerational wealth transfer angle is if you have something of value you are going to transfer to the next generation, you are going to spend time teaching them how to care for it. Think transferring a business, property, and other assets. Legacy is a real important thing for most people. This is something rare for black Americans. Unfortunately in a lot of cases the thing that is transferred between generations are debt obligations.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#113

Post by Bandrsnatch » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 1:33 PM UTC

This would be like teaching slaves to read in the pre-civil war South. It would allow any child to rise above the worker bee status. Not something wanted by todays powerful businesses and institutions.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#114

Post by senden9 » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 1:39 PM UTC

We in Austria have such courses. It was in the core plan of the public school I was on. I think two years long. One or two hours a week. It was as called "economic and economic law".

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#115

Post by machiaweliczny » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 1:40 PM UTC

OneGuy123 wrote: post #20

You can't just tell people how much taxes they are paying... Eg in Slovenia (small EU country with 2M people) many workers (even old ones) have no idea how much money the country takes from their wage. In school we covered stuff like "compound interest" but no-one ever thought us anything about taxes. We have a net, gross and a gross-gross wage (gross-gross being the actual amount the company pays for the worker). Mo…

In Poland gross-gross is just half of social security and medical coverage, not tax. The problem is that social security is basically tax and they are stealing all the time from it, and due to population decline this financial piramid needs to collapse.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#116

Post by jackcosgrove » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 1:41 PM UTC

I think to an extent financial education suffers from the same problem as CS education: it's hard to find teachers because those who understand the content can make much more money as practicing professionals than as teachers. It's really a shame because those two sets of skills are very important. Most of my self-learning has been in these topics, to fill in the gaps left by my formal education.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#117

Post by inglor_cz » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 1:48 PM UTC

bartaxyz wrote: post #17

I studied in Czech Republic and we had entire class spanning out over two years for economic and financial literacy at my high school. On the practical level, we were even tasked to fill out tax returns for a fictional company and we learned how to start freelancing & start a company. It was a high school in a rather small town on the south of Czech Republic, nothing special. I don't know how common this is in the re…

Also Czech and we did not even touch economic and financial literacy. As if it was considered completely outside scope of schooling.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#118

Post by sokoloff » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 1:53 PM UTC

aranelsurion wrote: post #103

silverpepsi wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False theories of poverty spread by people like yourself are the reason more people don't get the right advice to get out. They're told something crazy like "well yeah you just don't have enough money, too bad" The guy I'm talking about has windfalls - and when they come he'll feel so bad he goes out with friends and blows $30 on a meal. If he changed his celebrations to $15 meals using a coupon clipped from the pape…

Isn't trying to explain poverty by referring to two of your friends a massive overprojection? There are indeed times when a problem could be solved on the higher level by managing resources better, if you actually have the hinterland. Yet not all problems are about the superstructure you built on physical realities, and sometimes you simply don't have enough money no matter how you budget, or not enough smart people…

I agree in part, but completely ignoring the management and choice aspects to whatever greatest extent that they are present is also forfeiting one of the best local responses.

I think that’s where the Starbucks and avocado toast tropes come from. They’re not 100% right, but they’re surely not 100% wrong either.

I work with engineers who are making 6-figures and struggling with money or on course for a poor retirement. For those people, it’s 97+% choices IMO.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#119

Post by lordnacho » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 1:54 PM UTC

I think it's important as well, but I'm not sure it belongs in a school.

The thing school needs to give you is the ability to learn on your own. In order to do that, you need to know the basics of reading and writing, the basics of math, and the basic theory of knowledge. That last one is sorely missing, but that's another story.

You then want a superficial survey of everything humans know. Of course it cannot be anything but superficial, there isn't time after you know how to read, write essays, and solve some differential equations. In the end you're going to focus on the same old things that everyone thinks are important: a bit world/national history/lit, a bit of the headline sciences (phys/chem/bio), and a bit of foreign language and culture.

At best you will end up mentioning the following in passing: economics, psychology, cooking, citizenship, health, the law, and so on.

But yeah someone ought to mention that there are worthwhile fields of study that you'll have to learn on your own.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#120

Post by leetcrew » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

ysavir wrote: post #105

I have the opposite question: Why is our financial system so complicated it requires such an in depth education just for basic participation?

it's really not that complicated.

step 1: accumulate a buffer of 3-6 months expenses in your checking account

step 2: a) identify money that you will not need in the near future. b) accept that you will not beat professionals at picking individual stocks. c) use the money to invest broadly in the market.

step 3: in preparation for retirement (or a large, time-sensitive purchase), shift allocation to bonds.

if steps 2 and 3 are too complicated, buy target date funds instead. the hardest part is figuring out how much money you can safely tie up in investments, but no school can tell you this. step 1 is also pretty hard if you don't make much money, but that isn't really related to finance.

note that 2b) means you sidestep all the stuff that's actually complicated, and you're better off for it.