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Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

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Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#71

Post by roenxi »

bawolff wrote: post #36
roenxi wrote: post #15

Two reasons: 1) Financial rules are legal constructs - so not really suitable for academics. An academic syllabus might claim "Roth IRA implies X" then the law changes and it is no longer true. 2) The schools would be opening themselves up to legal liability if they accidental offer financial advice that goes bad (eg, invest in shares -> first time in history share market collapse -> angry people blame school). No co…

I feel like that's kind of like saying we shouldnt teach adding because one day you might be asked what 2+3 is instead of 2+2. School shouldn't make you memorize random facts but teach you the underlying concepts

There are no underlying concepts; they switch the whole thing up every so often. Say in 8 years time the government decides to swap income tax & sales tax out and replace them with a wealth & land tax. What fundamentals were the students meant to be taught to deal with that?

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#72

Post by jay_kyburz »

I don't think the problem is people not understanding tools for managing money, I think people have a vastly different ideas about what money _is_ and what its _for_.

This is largely an ethical / moral / social issue. (not sure the correct word).

I've been thinking about it a bit lately because I have 2 young kids at home just starting to earn pocket money. For them money is to spend on treats. Sometimes I can convince them to save up for something larger, but fundamentally it's something for them to spend.

It's not until later in life, when you start selling your time that some people start to see money a little differently. No "treats" are really worth that time you invested earning the money to buy them. Money is not for spending on treats, it's for surviving. (and every cent counts.) Food, shelter, clothing, tools, then as little as possible on entertainment / culture / travel.

Then even later, when you have children, you start to realize that when you spend money, you are not only selling your time, but also the time of your children, because if you can just put enough away for them to start life without debt, they'll have to sell a hell of a lot less of their time to just survive.

err, but the point I was trying to make was that not many people are taught that money is not for spending on treats, but I don't thin that's something that you can be taught in school, (would even agree with).

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#73

Post by giantDinosaur »

MatekCopatek wrote: post #42

It's a political topic - learning about economics is slighlty more relative than learning about physics. I'm from a country that used to be socialist and when people hear that "Self management and the basics of marxism" used to be a mandatory school subject, they're usually disgusted and call it brainwashing. I absolutely agree that it's very useful to learn about the inner workings of the system you live in, as it g…

Clearly such a course can be taught in different ways. One could be pure uncritical acceptance and one could be like a philosophy class with real discussion and debate. Which was it? One is most certainly teaching how the doctrine is supposed to work, but may fail to teach you anything of worth about how the system you're living with is actually working.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#75

Post by PurpleFoxy »

aliassmith wrote: post #43

Every recommendation to add "x" to a school curriculum should state explicitly what alternative activity should be cut to free up time. This could be another subject, sleep or childrens' free time. For example, a better question would be "Why don't we eliminate and teach finance instead?"

We could eliminate religion classes from schools

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#76

Post by sam_lowry_ »

bartaxyz wrote: post #17

I studied in Czech Republic and we had entire class spanning out over two years for economic and financial literacy at my high school. On the practical level, we were even tasked to fill out tax returns for a fictional company and we learned how to start freelancing & start a company. It was a high school in a rather small town on the south of Czech Republic, nothing special. I don't know how common this is in the re…

What was that small town, Brno? Now known as RedHat european HQ location?

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#77

Post by austincheney »

I suspect schools do not teach financial education deliberately. Large segments of the economy are entirely dependent upon poverty spending, such as fashion and media. If the population generally became financially literate fewer people would buy shit they don't need. What is Nike going to do when everybody stops buying Air Jordan's to save for a down payment on a house?

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#79

Post by ghufran_syed »

silverpepsi wrote: post #68
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no windfall in poverty. In general, folks with money are able to have things like comfortable shoes, entertainment, and not worry about their electricity being turned off if they have a flat tire. Every "windfall" takes care of a need, makes you more secure with things like food and shelter, or gives you some mental relief by providing a few moments of entertainment. There is no saving for those other things…

False theories of poverty spread by people like yourself are the reason more people don't get the right advice to get out. They're told something crazy like "well yeah you just don't have enough money, too bad" The guy I'm talking about has windfalls - and when they come he'll feel so bad he goes out with friends and blows $30 on a meal. If he changed his celebrations to $15 meals using a coupon clipped from the pape…

I have no idea of this applies to all low-income people, but I certainly known people who would have trouble paying their rent during the year, but would later spend their tax refund on a trip to hawaii (from california) rather than save it for a rainy day. I went to university with a student who couldn't afford a $30 calculator for class, but would buy a $200 bottle of booze while on a night out for her friend's birthday.

Pretending that none of the poor have maladaptive behaviors is not helpful to them. There are also many other reasons for poverty, many of which are not under that person's control - but that makes it more important to control what you can

"Black rednecks and white liberals" by Thomas Sowell has a lot more details about cultural traits associated with persistent vs transient poverty

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#80

Post by BoiledCabbage »

silverpepsi wrote: post #39
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #29

We got taught about basic finance. It was poor: The teacher had a friend from a care dealership come in to teach us some things. I was 13. But more importantly: What a wide swath of folks need is how to survive poverty. So many people never get to the point of even considering a CD or IRA. Most folks only really need the bank account for paying things. 401(k) simply because that's what is offered by the employer, and…

I think you're really, really on to something, but just simply that calling it "surviving poverty" will give most people the wrong impression. You've got to convince people that by spending every windfall (and by windfall I literally mean like 20 to 50 extra dollars) to "make up" for the resentment they felt when they couldn't pay their rent on time and got Eviction Notice #1... they've got to SAVE IT or the entire r…

> There are probably 10 guys like him for every person who actually is so broke there is no way out...This is what America's "poor" looks like, it is far more a mental state than concrete reality.

No, this is what poverty looks like in the strawman you've built up in your head. I guarantee you the person you describe exists, and is just as you describe - but they're also not representative of American poverty. But they're certainly the caricature of it that certain groups love to push for political reasons and have been doing so consistently for decades. In the 80s it went by the myth of the 'welfare queens'. A caricature that was demonstrably false - but that didn't stop it from becoming a commonly held perspective at the time (people have since learned the truth). And the process goes back further than that.

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