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Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

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Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#31

Post by natmaka »

indigochill wrote: post #27
natmaka wrote: post #19

Maybe because there already isn't enough time to adequately expose and train kids to much more fundamental ability/knowledge(?) Basic arithmetic being one, and w/o it most of any finance-related knowledge lies out of reach.

I'm curious what you mean by there not being enough time. Kids today spend more time in dedicated schooling (as opposed to apprenticeships or whatever) than kids of yesteryear and although the information density of everyday life has increased substantially, it's not like basic arithmetic has become more complex in the last couple thousand years.

I don't think those fundamentals were better taught to kids in the past, nor did I state it.

In my opinion kids were and are taught way too many ancillary or even dubious (sheer propaganda) stuff, and not enough fundamentals (arithmetic being one, critical thinking another, logic, collaborative work...).

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#32

Post by rayhendricks »

mellosouls wrote: post #10

everyone should a fundamental understanding of how a savings account, CD account, IRA, Roth IRA, 401(k) and MSA account work. Likewise, everyone should have a fundamental understanding of the equity markets, derivatives markets, futures markets, bond and treasury markets along with an understanding of how interest rates work and their effects on financial instruments like mortgages. How much money do you think most p…

We need more VTSAX and less english majors. Start saving young and income doesn't really matter if your trying to FIRE.

Also healthy eating habits and information about birth control should be taught in addition to financial literacy and at the expense of the current curriculum, but it is not because politics (both left and right here).

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#34

Post by petr25102018 »

bartaxyz wrote: post #17

I studied in Czech Republic and we had entire class spanning out over two years for economic and financial literacy at my high school. On the practical level, we were even tasked to fill out tax returns for a fictional company and we learned how to start freelancing & start a company. It was a high school in a rather small town on the south of Czech Republic, nothing special. I don't know how common this is in the re…

Also Czech. I don't think this is common in here at all. You were lucky with your school.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#35

Post by bawolff »

Understanding what a savings account is and understanding different corporate structures are quite different levels of financial literacy.

I'm not sure how someone could not understand what a savings account is (you put money in, get a crap amount of interest, eventually take money out. What's to understand?) But i agree with the general premise. However corporate structure might be a bit more than needed.

Fwiw in canada (alberta) we had a class that covered the basics of financial literacy.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#36

Post by bawolff »

roenxi wrote: post #15

Two reasons: 1) Financial rules are legal constructs - so not really suitable for academics. An academic syllabus might claim "Roth IRA implies X" then the law changes and it is no longer true. 2) The schools would be opening themselves up to legal liability if they accidental offer financial advice that goes bad (eg, invest in shares -> first time in history share market collapse -> angry people blame school). No co…

I feel like that's kind of like saying we shouldnt teach adding because one day you might be asked what 2+3 is instead of 2+2. School shouldn't make you memorize random facts but teach you the underlying concepts

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#37

Post by emteycz »

petr25102018 wrote: post #34
bartaxyz wrote: post #17

I studied in Czech Republic and we had entire class spanning out over two years for economic and financial literacy at my high school. On the practical level, we were even tasked to fill out tax returns for a fictional company and we learned how to start freelancing & start a company. It was a high school in a rather small town on the south of Czech Republic, nothing special. I don't know how common this is in the re…

Also Czech. I don't think this is common in here at all. You were lucky with your school.

Also Czech, yeah I don't think it's common at all.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#38

Post by bawolff »

justalanm wrote: post #23

Finance doesn't create value, most of the times actually destroys it. Moreover, you're looking at this with a clearly US-centric perspective, in many other countries we don't need to know about retirement schemes, school loans and health insurance policies (you seem to have forgotten that insurance IS finance, but this might be just another example of the reason why this is hairy). So, if tomorrow all of this changes…

So, if you dont need to know about school loans, how about car loans, morgatges, credit cards etc.

If not, which communist utopia are you thinking of where you never have to worry about money, and how do i move there?

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#39

Post by silverpepsi »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #29

We got taught about basic finance. It was poor: The teacher had a friend from a care dealership come in to teach us some things. I was 13. But more importantly: What a wide swath of folks need is how to survive poverty. So many people never get to the point of even considering a CD or IRA. Most folks only really need the bank account for paying things. 401(k) simply because that's what is offered by the employer, and…

I think you're really, really on to something, but just simply that calling it "surviving poverty" will give most people the wrong impression.

You've got to convince people that by spending every windfall (and by windfall I literally mean like 20 to 50 extra dollars) to "make up" for the resentment they felt when they couldn't pay their rent on time and got Eviction Notice #1... they've got to SAVE IT or the entire rest of their life will just be a boom and bust cycle of windfalls. Once you are proactively "defending" not eating into your hard earned savings account, your mentality changes 180 degrees - in a single day vs when you are living in the red 365 day/yr.

I know a guy from college, poorest guy I know, constantly begging off family & getting late fees on his rent. He works a crap job though at least 250% minimum wage because he couldn't finish school on the 6 years of full-ride scholarship he got for having the right skin color (school diversity scholarship) and then still wanted a degree so took out a $80,000 loan for a fraud school. He failed out.

I lived 2 years on his same income, it is low, but he doesn't live in a HCOL area - so I can assure you it is plenty if carefully managed. He doesn't buy anything impressive, he appears to live a basic life, BUT: He just has no idea how to manage his emotions and therefore to manage his occasional spending. There are probably 10 guys like him for every person who actually is so broke there is no way out. I know how he uses his windfalls - he openly admits it to me without even thinking for a second that it makes no sense - and he's in his 40s now. I can't lecture on it because the emotional wall that comes up won't let him hear - it is "capitalism" that is to blame apparently and some politicians. This is what America's "poor" looks like, it is far more a mental state than concrete reality.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn’t finance a part of the core curriculum at schools?

#40

Post by op03 »

If you ever teach a group of kids you quickly learn that interests, personality types, needs come in a wide spectrum. Whats in the "core curriculum" and its effects are not predictable.

For example, I had French classes for 4 years and can't speak, read or write it to save my life. The teacher wasn't bad and kept telling me, who knows maybe one day I'd move to France. As a kid, I thought the whole thing was ridiculous. I was quite happy where I was.

Better option is to give ppl, at any point in their life, a route to learning when they discover a knowledge gap.

As did happen when I was sent off for work in France.

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