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Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

reuters.com

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Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#221

Post by buran77 »

seppin wrote: post #184
buran77 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that long ago people were running from Russia and doing their best to defect to the US, with any information they could bring with them. I'm sure that if you were alive back then you never once characterized that the same way you do it now with Snowden. If you wanted accuracy you'd have come here with way more than a flimsy story and a conclusion that's pure speculation. But that's what you brought. > people view…

You make a lot of assumptions about what I think, and none of them are correct. Your writing style is also all over the place and hard to follow.

> Your writing style is also all over the place and hard to follow.

That's a weird bit of deflection you've resorted to. [0] And unless you're walking back on every one of your comments and opinions in this thread I think I was spot on with my assessment.

My friend, it's not my "hard to follow" writing style that you're stumbling on, it's that I made a more sensible argument than you did. You are plucking an argument out of thin air, floating on conspiracy and innuendo without any real evidence, or at least something that passes Occam's razor. Like that you can build anything, doesn't make it true.

Look, I'm not even saying you are wrong, because I have no evidence either way. Just that the (far) more plausible explanation is that anyone running from a superpower is running to another superpower. It's the only thing that makes sense. He did what he had to do to survive.

You're trying to build that into "he must have been a Russian puppet all along" because "people" have been saying it so you must be right. But then you complain that "people" also say he got stranded in Russia, so they must be wrong. So I ask you, is what "people" say only correct when you want it to be correct? You selectively go between "people support my views so I must be right" to "people contradict my views so they must be wrong".

I'm sorry, that's no way to have a civilized and productive discussion.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24864900

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#222

Post by Arech »

terrycody wrote: post #213

Really really happy and glad to see this news, I hope Snowden lives a better life in there! Kudos to you, our hero!

I'm glad you are willing him a better life, but don't really expect it is even possible. No. Especially for a Snowden's kind of person. It's more like a prison with free walks. You should make your govt to pardon him and clear from all charges.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#224

Post by ikt »

slg wrote: post #177
dTal wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the State Department should have thought of that before cancelling his passport while he was in Moscow.

You are maybe right on process being misguided, but you are factually wrong on the timing. Snowden was in Hong Kong when his passport was revoked. https://apnews.com/article/587786e6e63b4dc2b70c471606d7f584

Interesting, looks like he got out by the skin of his teeth as the US was on him hard but at the same time:

In October 2013, Snowden said that before flying to Moscow, he gave all the classified documents he had obtained to journalists he met in Hong Kong, and kept no copies for himself.[126] In January 2014, he told a German TV interviewer that he gave all of his information to American journalists reporting on American issues.[77] During his first American TV interview, in May 2014, Snowden said he had protected himself from Russian leverage by destroying the material he had been holding before landing in Moscow.[35]

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#225

Post by coryfklein »

elefanten wrote: post #90
mikestew wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you weren't alive or old enough to pay attention back when Russia ballet dancers/athletes/et. al. would come to the U. S. for the Russian Nutcracker Ballet tour, then ask for asylum. Or maybe your country-that-is-not-the-US didn't make a big deal of it, but it would be all over the news about how some ballet performer seeks asylum from The Evil Empire(tm). Of course the person would seek asylum in the U. S.,…

Maybe because they don't really have a story for why anyone would want to move there, other than running afoul of the same state security organizations that Russia is already opposed to. It's not exactly a huge draw for anyone who does NOT have those unusual security concerns.

Well the ballet dancers definitely weren't seeking shelter in the U.S. because they wanted to see Broadway and Yosemite.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#226

Post by seppin »

Matticus_Rex wrote: post #193
seppin wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and if you are a citizen of a free country that defects to a mafia state to help in their PR efforts, such an action should be called out for what it is.

Literally no one contends he defected for the purpose of helping Russia's PR, so you calling it out as that is deliberately slanderous.

> Literally no one contends he defected for the purpose of helping Russia's PR

Right, including me. That just happened to be the result.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#227

Post by seppin »

buran77 wrote: post #221
seppin wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make a lot of assumptions about what I think, and none of them are correct. Your writing style is also all over the place and hard to follow.

> Your writing style is also all over the place and hard to follow. That's a weird bit of deflection you've resorted to. [0] And unless you're walking back on every one of your comments and opinions in this thread I think I was spot on with my assessment. My friend, it's not my "hard to follow" writing style that you're stumbling on, it's that I made a more sensible argument than you did. You are plucking an argument…

It's not deflection if it directly affects our ability to have a discussion.

> "he must have been a Russian puppet all along"

No. Actually read what i'm saying. He chose a side. He knew that poking the eye of the US has consequences, and to avoid those consequences he needed to align himself with one of the few states left that doesn't bow to US wishes.

The states that fit that criteria are themselves exclusively authoritarian. So in protesting the illegal surveillance of a liberal state, he made himself a pawn in the propaganda war of an illiberal state.

That basic contraction was never his intention, but it became his reality.

> Just that the (far) more plausible explanation is that anyone running from a superpower is running to another superpower. It's the only thing that makes sense. He did what he had to do to survive.

Yes, we agree. His intentions can't ever be known, so arguing that is pointless. I'm simply pointing out the consequences of his actions and the basic contraction in his story vs the actual outcome.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#229

Post by dllthomas »

manquer wrote: post #194
nradov wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress is like the only job where you can take off as much time as you like and use it to apply for a better job.

Congress also gets to decide their own salary hikes. political jobs were meant to is how sports was a century back. Being a pro was actively frowned on in many competitions, you were supposed to play part time and still excel. Political office never paid well, most politicians had farms and other businesses to keep them afloat. Presidents were famously responsible for hosting functions at the White house, some died b…

Congress gets to decide salary for the next congress.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#230

Post by colejohnson66 »

dllthomas wrote: post #229
manquer wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress also gets to decide their own salary hikes. political jobs were meant to is how sports was a century back. Being a pro was actively frowned on in many competitions, you were supposed to play part time and still excel. Political office never paid well, most politicians had farms and other businesses to keep them afloat. Presidents were famously responsible for hosting functions at the White house, some died b…

Congress gets to decide salary for the next congress .

Limiting it to the next congress doesn’t help when they’re career politicians and just get re-elected.
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